2010-04-08 Swhack IRC Log

00:03:13 *** ephemerian has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
00:09:22 *** kpreid has quit (Quit: kpreid)
00:10:46 *** m4rk has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
00:20:13 *** MacTed (~Thud@c-24-61-62-241.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
00:32:47 *** kpreid (~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net) has joined #swhack
00:59:07 *** jetscreamer (~jetscream@unaffiliated/jetscreamer) has joined #swhack
01:06:56 *** jeffarch has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
01:11:18 *** jeffarch (~jeff@70-41-156-15.cust.wildblue.net) has joined #swhack
01:51:39 *** appletizer (id@cpc3-hawk1-0-0-cust54.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #swhack
02:32:41 *** jetx (~jetscream@unaffiliated/jetscreamer) has joined #swhack
02:35:44 *** jetscreamer has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
02:38:04 *** jetscreamer (~jetscream@unaffiliated/jetscreamer) has joined #swhack
02:39:41 *** jetx has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
02:40:33 <BigJibby> is erlang use a vm?
02:40:39 <BigJibby> does*
02:43:08 <BigJibby> hmm. or rather why does couchDB need 200MB ram? and why am I asking in here? these are all question I have.
02:44:19 <nslater> yo BigJibby
02:44:51 <BigJibby> oh hai nslater
02:45:05 <nslater> maybe you new one of couchdb's project leads was in swhack???
02:45:09 <nslater> who knows??? not me!
02:45:45 <BigJibby> possibly, that could be why :)
02:46:18 <nslater> you know - i wrote the book on couchdb..
02:46:28 <BigJibby> hmm. this seems to be evolutions use of couch for ubuntu one. oh well.
02:46:29 *** appletizer has parted #swhack (None)
02:46:53 <nslater> i love saying that
02:47:18 <nslater> erlang is a vm, yes
02:47:23 <nslater> but 200mb, i think no
02:48:38 <BigJibby> beam.smp was using 200MB and climbing, until I killed it, which in turn stalled evolution
02:49:44 <BigJibby> it looked like someone was leaking memory
02:50:01 <[bjoern]> I tend to do that. Sorry.
02:50:15 <BigJibby> starts at 56 MB
02:50:31 <BigJibby> 56.2
02:50:46 <nslater> could just be indexing a view
02:50:52 <nslater> bring it up in #couchdb or on user@
02:50:55 * nslater goes to bed
02:53:56 <BigJibby> 60.6
02:54:19 <BigJibby> it will soon overtake firefox!
02:54:59 <BigJibby> oh wow. jumped to 128 and 80% cpu, then down to 12
02:55:04 * BigJibby gives up
02:59:40 *** danja_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
03:49:49 *** edsu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
03:49:52 *** edsu (~ed@li144-162.members.linode.com) has joined #swhack
04:32:34 *** sivy has quit (Quit: sivy)
04:34:36 *** sivy (~sivy@69.2.100.75) has joined #swhack
04:40:41 *** sivy has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
05:07:32 *** [bjoern] has quit (Quit: Quit)
05:09:09 *** [bjoern] (~bjoern@dslb-094-222-150-178.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #swhack
05:17:39 *** panni_ has quit (Quit: ( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 3.81 :: www.XLhost.de ))
05:33:06 *** jasonw22 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
05:33:31 *** jasonw22 (~Jason@c-67-169-49-196.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
05:52:34 *** MaienM (~MaienM-F@unaffiliated/maienm) has joined #swhack
05:55:26 *** m4rk (~mark@host86-165-81-128.range86-165.btcentralplus.com) has joined #swhack
05:58:33 *** MaienM is now known as MaienM|School
06:20:06 *** m4rk has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
06:25:31 *** jeffarch has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
06:34:58 *** jeffarch (~jeff@70-41-156-15.cust.wildblue.net) has joined #swhack
06:38:49 *** jetx (~jetscream@unaffiliated/jetscreamer) has joined #swhack
06:40:50 *** jetscreamer has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
06:44:23 *** jetscreamer (~jetscream@unaffiliated/jetscreamer) has joined #swhack
06:44:32 *** jetx has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
06:51:10 *** jeffarch has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
06:53:05 *** jeffarch (~jeff@70-41-156-15.cust.wildblue.net) has joined #swhack
06:54:48 *** jeffarch has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
07:07:12 *** jeffarch (~jeff@70-41-156-15.cust.wildblue.net) has joined #swhack
07:08:50 *** jeffarch has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
07:50:56 *** libby (~libby@cpc1-aztw25-2-0-cust42.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #swhack
08:05:43 *** MaienM|School has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
08:09:59 *** ephemerian (~ian@dsl-fixed-77-44-49-36.interdsl.co.uk) has joined #swhack
09:08:32 *** libby has quit (Quit: libby)
09:11:09 *** jeffarch (~jeff@70-41-156-15.cust.wildblue.net) has joined #swhack
09:13:16 *** nogagplz has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
09:25:30 *** iba (~iba@c80-217-232-149.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #swhack
09:25:43 <iba> western
09:26:07 <iba> best one
09:29:42 *** iba has quit (Quit: iba)
09:33:46 <archels> .u mu
09:33:47 <phenny> U+3382 SQUARE MU A (㎂)
10:03:55 <sbp> yo
10:05:56 <sbp> http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l0icjsnzcd1qzyycoo1_500.jpg
10:07:23 <sbp> http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/154843/BACON-BABY-FORMULA.jpg
10:07:57 <sbp> ooh. http://www.evilmadscientist.com/article.php/atomiccookies
10:12:08 <sbp> http://www.portlandmercury.com/images/blogimages/2010/04/06/1270591462-sean_hannity_s_book_filed_correctly.jpeg
10:18:17 <sbp> http://www.blogcatalog.com/community/a-semen-education/
10:20:06 <sbp> I just flicked past something which said "Single Malt Donus". then I had to go back and check. Single Malt Donuts
10:34:33 *** libby (~libby@94.196.243.172.threembb.co.uk) has joined #swhack
10:41:44 *** libby has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
10:44:48 *** libby (~libby@94.197.141.245.threembb.co.uk) has joined #swhack
10:54:10 *** libby has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
10:59:02 *** libby (~libby@92.40.231.140.sub.mbb.three.co.uk) has joined #swhack
11:07:43 *** libby has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
12:01:10 *** kpreid has quit (Quit: kpreid)
12:14:11 *** MacTed has quit ()
12:25:22 *** kpreid (~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com) has joined #swhack
12:39:50 *** Talliesin (~Talliesin@86.47.160.33) has joined #swhack
12:39:50 <Monty> hi Talliesin, how ya doing?
12:42:17 *** libby (~libby@94.197.246.68.threembb.co.uk) has joined #swhack
12:44:42 *** libby_ (~libby@92.40.136.176.sub.mbb.three.co.uk) has joined #swhack
12:46:49 *** libby has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
12:46:56 *** libby_ is now known as libby
12:51:22 *** libby_ (~libby@92.40.7.81.sub.mbb.three.co.uk) has joined #swhack
12:53:25 *** libby has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
12:53:38 *** libby_ is now known as libby
12:57:16 *** panni_ (hannes@ip-95-222-52-93.unitymediagroup.de) has joined #swhack
12:57:16 <Monty> yo panni_!
12:57:39 *** theresaanna has quit (Quit: theresaanna)
13:07:54 *** sivy (~sivy@ip98-165-151-31.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #swhack
13:08:27 *** libby_ (~libby@92.40.149.2.sub.mbb.three.co.uk) has joined #swhack
13:09:49 *** libby has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
13:10:34 *** jetx (~jetscream@unaffiliated/jetscreamer) has joined #swhack
13:10:34 <Monty> bah, it's jetx again
13:11:25 *** libby (~libby@92.40.90.223.sub.mbb.three.co.uk) has joined #swhack
13:12:58 *** libby_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
13:13:28 *** jetscreamer has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
13:15:54 *** jetscreamer (~jetscream@unaffiliated/jetscreamer) has joined #swhack
13:18:55 *** jetx has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
13:19:28 *** libby has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
13:19:39 *** libby (~libby@92.40.93.227.sub.mbb.three.co.uk) has joined #swhack
13:21:07 *** libby_ (~libby@92.40.129.239.sub.mbb.three.co.uk) has joined #swhack
13:22:29 *** libby__ (~libby@92.40.132.192.sub.mbb.three.co.uk) has joined #swhack
13:23:51 *** libby has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
13:23:51 *** libby__ is now known as libby
13:25:56 *** libby_ has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
13:30:03 *** sivy is now known as sivy_afk
13:39:28 *** MacTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36) has joined #swhack
13:45:16 *** theresaanna (~theresasu@63.118.206.3) has joined #swhack
14:39:17 *** loggy (~loggy@gimble.notabug.com) has joined #swhack
14:39:17 <anthony.freenode.net> Topic for #swhack is: Semen. Semen is a subject that everyone can relate to.
14:39:17 <anthony.freenode.net> Users on #swhack: loggy mmmmmrob jetscreamer theresaanna MacTed sivy_afk panni_ Talliesin jeffarch ephemerian jasonw22 [bjoern] edsu tro _ulises sbp nsh Arnia JibberJim archels tav [[sroracle]] jessica yano deltab shepazu Xanthor[aw] davisp lmorchard Jibbler Monty [sbp] phenny dmiles_afk CaptSolo thelsdj BigJibby p6eval tobbez treed maxkelley scottrageous jsled Tene nslater xxv l7
14:39:22 <sbp> u has a loggy
14:39:49 <[bjoern]> Monty: play with your friend
14:39:50 <Monty> ah! hehe
14:40:01 <sbp> he didn't even know he had a friend
14:40:07 <[bjoern]> now ur loggy has a problem.
14:40:40 <sbp> http://i.imgur.com/1pXlO.jpg
14:43:31 <[bjoern]> nice
14:44:09 *** jeanniecool (~jeannieco@c-67-183-217-79.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
14:46:10 <sbp> http://homepages.ius.edu/kforinas/physlets/quantum/hydrogen.html
14:46:16 <sbp> WARNING: THIS PAGE THINKS YOU HAVE JAVA
14:47:32 <[bjoern]> pages are often wrong about things.
14:49:35 *** jeffarch has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
14:50:18 <[bjoern]> "Comet That Killed Mammoths Could Strike Again"
14:52:55 *** jeffarch (~jeff@70-41-156-15.cust.wildblue.net) has joined #swhack
15:03:58 *** [bjoern] has quit (Quit: Quit)
15:04:20 *** shepazu has quit (Quit: Core Breach)
15:14:12 *** [bjoern] (~bjoern@dslb-094-222-150-178.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #swhack
15:14:18 *** sivy_afk is now known as sivy
15:23:05 *** sivy has quit (Quit: sivy)
15:31:12 *** sivy (~sivy@69.2.100.75) has joined #swhack
15:36:09 *** shepazu (~schepers@adsl-242-200-136.rmo.bellsouth.net) has joined #swhack
16:03:26 *** sivy has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
16:09:17 *** sivy (~sivy@69.2.100.75) has joined #swhack
16:21:20 *** nOgAnOo (~what@DSLPool-net208-54.wctc.net) has joined #swhack
16:25:08 <[bjoern]> "In my opinion, it is very definitely a wrong behaviour of any init script to erase the whole filesystem" - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upstart/+bug/557177
16:25:37 <jeanniecool> Plus, you know, penis.
16:27:47 *** mmmmmrob has quit (Quit: we're off to see the wizard...)
16:30:12 <[bjoern]> You could be right.
16:31:11 <[bjoern]> .wik Verena Becker
16:31:12 <phenny> "Verena Becker (born 31 July 1952 in Berlin-Wilmersdorf) was a West German member of the Movement 2 June and later the Red Army Faction." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verena_Becker
16:32:09 <[bjoern]> She's just been charged with the murder of Siegfried Buback in 1977.
16:32:13 <[bjoern]> .wik Siegfried Buback
16:32:13 <phenny> "Siegfried Buback (January 3, 1920 in Wilsdruff – April 7, 1977 in Karlsruhe) was the Attorney General of Germany from 1974-1977." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siegfried_Buback
16:38:52 *** MaienM (~MaienM-F@unaffiliated/maienm) has joined #swhack
16:39:32 *** ephemerian has parted #swhack (None)
16:41:59 <[bjoern]> .leo Bach
16:42:00 <phenny> bach (N.Z.) = die Ferienhütte, das Wochenendhäuschen
16:42:01 <phenny> der Bach = beck, brook, ditch, stream
16:42:02 <phenny> der Bach - Gewässer, Meer (sl.) (hum.) = the drink (coll.) - large body of water
16:42:03 <phenny> — http://dict.leo.org/ende?search=Bach
16:51:33 *** hannes__ (~hannes@sedanet0.sedan.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE) has joined #swhack
16:54:31 <sbp> iPhone OS 4 Event
16:54:31 <sbp> http://live.gizmodo.com/
16:54:48 <sbp> http://live.slashgear.com/
16:55:55 <sbp> http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/04/iphone-os-4-special-event-cupertino-liveblog.ars
16:56:09 <Arnia> iSWHACK COMETH!
16:56:11 <sbp> http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/08/live-from-apples-iphone-os-4-event/
16:56:29 <sbp> http://keynote.hardmac.com/
16:56:48 <sbp> http://www.macworld.com/article/150449/2010/04/liveupdate.html
16:56:54 <[bjoern]> I hope it's got more DRM and vendor lock-in. Man I love those.
16:57:18 <sbp> http://live.macobserver.com/article/2010/04/
16:57:22 <[bjoern]> Ideally it'll also disable functionality you've grown used to.
16:57:44 <nslater> sbp, what?
16:57:51 <sbp> http://live.appleinsider.com/
16:57:58 <sbp> nslater: iPhone OS 4 event
16:58:07 <nslater> cool
16:58:12 <nslater> im busy trying to write about sunsets
16:58:16 <nslater> ill catch up in here after
16:58:18 <nslater> :)
16:58:25 <sbp> http://live.gdgt.com/2010/04/08/live-iphone-os-4-0-event-coverage/
16:59:15 *** Morbus (~morbus@c-75-67-48-244.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
16:59:18 <sbp> my top five:
16:59:19 <Morbus> I SEE NO EVENT
16:59:20 <sbp> (1) http://live.gizmodo.com/
16:59:27 <sbp> (2) http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/08/live-from-apples-iphone-os-4-event/
16:59:33 <sbp> (3) http://live.gdgt.com/2010/04/08/live-iphone-os-4-0-event-coverage/
16:59:36 <[bjoern]> "Scientists Successfully Teach Gorilla It Will Die Someday"
16:59:39 <sbp> (4) http://live.macobserver.com/article/2010/04/
16:59:45 <sbp> (5) http://live.slashgear.com/
16:59:57 *** kpreid (~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net) has joined #swhack
17:00:23 *** sbp changed the topic to: "Covering the Introduction of ClearType to iPhone OS 4"
17:00:47 <Morbus> is that for real?
17:00:55 <Morbus> i really know nothing about the iOS, since i don't have a device.
17:00:58 <Morbus> this will be 1.0 to me ;)
17:01:04 <sbp> Gizmodo, Chen: "We’re inside. People are being seated. Anyone with a camera is being separated out for some reason. Seriously?"
17:01:12 <sbp> ClearType: nope, it's my joke
17:01:18 <Morbus> OMG. I COULD WAtch TWITTER COMMENTS ;)
17:01:19 <sbp> would be hilarious if they did though
17:01:26 <sbp> I think Arnia would actually come and hit me
17:02:09 <[bjoern]> jeanniecool would mention penis in a similarily violent manner.
17:02:13 * Arnia gets the Book off the lectern
17:02:28 <Arnia> just in case it is needed...
17:03:06 <sbp> engadget seems the best coverage so far
17:05:12 <Morbus> another mossberg quote. he's a shill. use someone else.
17:06:41 <sbp> would be funny if there's some massive changes that require the early launch app designers to completely rewrite their apps
17:07:04 <sbp> 3.5m iPad apps downloaded
17:07:24 <sbp> App Store news
17:07:32 <sbp> hopefully they're going to TEAR IT APART and rebuild it from scratch
17:08:01 <[bjoern]> Or give me a cent of every dollar they make through it.
17:08:12 <sbp> 3500 iPad apps
17:08:37 <sbp> 4 billion apps in the App Store downloaded
17:08:46 <sbp> mainly because people couldn't find the exact one they were looking for
17:09:01 <jsled> heh
17:09:27 <jsled> would much prefer to know how many Apps regularly used.
17:09:39 <sbp> probably hard to get that kind of data
17:09:46 <jsled> they are tracking all that data why won't let us know WHY WONT THEY JUST COME CLEAN!
17:09:50 <[bjoern]> .oO{ Or they just saw someone on twitter mention the app and couldn't stand not to try it out }
17:09:55 <sbp> hey, showing Star Walk on the iPad
17:10:26 <sbp> http://c1291262.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/apple-iphone-os4_043.jpg
17:10:30 <sbp> looks like a good weather app
17:10:33 <sbp> bet it won't work in the UK
17:10:37 <Morbus> mmm, accordions.
17:11:05 <sbp> hehe
17:11:20 <jsled> pandering.
17:11:24 <jsled> accordion pandering.
17:11:27 <sbp> "Now, the iPhone. Steve says they won JD Power’s customer satisfaction award in 2008, 2009 and 2010."
17:11:31 <sbp> gizmodo is the fastest
17:12:42 <Morbus> 10:12AM "So today we are giving a dev preview of iPhone OS 4. We've been working on this for a while, it's pretty great -- we're going to ship this summer and release a dev preview today."
17:12:48 <sbp> http://c1291262.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/apple-iphone-os4_056.jpg
17:13:08 <Morbus> MY GOD THAT LOGO IS SO SELF EXPLANATORY. ALL HAIL #apple
17:13:24 <sbp> quick look, hmm
17:13:33 <Morbus> In-app SMS for iPhone 4.0. That's going to be interesting. #apple
17:14:05 <sbp> are you tweeting to IRC? :-)
17:14:14 <Morbus> SHUDDUP.
17:14:22 <Morbus> nah, that was someone else on #apple
17:14:31 <sbp> CardDAV?
17:14:52 <sbp> multitasking, heh
17:15:01 <sbp> 10:14AM - “Let’s start off with the first one, the biggest: multitasking!”
17:15:10 <sbp> http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/04/iphone-os-4-0120-rm-eng.jpg
17:15:22 <sbp> Chen: The first one, “probably the biggest one”, is multitasking. MULTITASKING.
17:15:45 <Morbus> Jobs says they weren’t the first to cut and paste, but they were “the best.”
17:15:47 <sbp> "All you have to do is buy several iPhone devices, and use them side by side."
17:16:08 <sbp> hmm: 10:15AM - “If you don’t do it right, your phone will feel sluggish and your battery life will go down. We’ve figured out how to avoid those things, and that’s what took us a little longer, and I think we’ve nailed it.” Demo time! “We’ve got a great UI for it, I think you’ll like it.”
17:16:09 <Morbus> ehhehe
17:16:29 <sbp> I wonder if it will be some kind of memory-quota/locking thing?
17:16:31 *** Gabe (~webchat@d8uv.org) has joined #swhack
17:16:33 * [bjoern] imagines some are already ordering the additional devices.
17:16:38 * sbp waves to Gabe
17:16:53 <Morbus> omg, background wallpaper.
17:17:01 * Morbus buys iphone
17:17:02 <sbp> yeah, I saw that on the list of features
17:17:06 <sbp> heh. it can be set from apps now
17:17:18 <sbp> here: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/04/iphone-os-4-0114-rm-eng.jpg
17:17:20 <sbp> bottom right
17:17:30 <Morbus> yeah, but those were words sbp
17:17:34 <Morbus> this is a photo! ;)
17:17:37 *** appletizer (id@cpc3-hawk1-0-0-cust54.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #swhack
17:17:40 <sbp> hehe
17:17:42 <sbp> ? 10:16AM - Steve launches mail, opens a message, clicks a URL into the browser. “So far this is what we already do every day on the iPhone.” Double click home button, window raises, shows app s that are running right now.
17:17:53 <sbp> would be nice to see that
17:18:07 *** litwol (~litwol@drupal.org/user/78134/view) has joined #swhack
17:18:12 <sbp> oh, I think it's this:
17:18:12 <sbp> http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/iphone40software/iphone40software102.jpg
17:18:13 <litwol> i swear more of this shit and i'll starve
17:18:18 <Morbus> litwol: ehehe
17:18:25 <Morbus> litwol: you got multitasking ;)
17:18:33 <litwol> so i have an announcement to make
17:18:33 <sbp> those are the things he has open I believe
17:18:46 <litwol> i am /not/ going to buy ipad or any of the tablets in the foreseable future
17:18:59 <sbp> 10:18AM - “Very simple, very very simple.” Applause. Opens eBay app, “I’m right to where I left off.” Tap Tap Revenge: “Alright, I’m not winning here.” He’s moving back and forth between apps fairly quickly, but we’re not seeing how this is actually multitasking though — what Steve is showing right now is just app switching
17:19:02 <litwol> i defined my need for one as 1) mobility, 2) battery life, 3) cnnectivity
17:19:02 <Morbus> what's the home button?
17:19:14 <litwol> after seeing that with 3 batteries and laptop i have the first 2 sorted out
17:19:23 <litwol> i proceeded with jailbreaking and testing my 3g iphone connectivity
17:19:31 <litwol> and to my surprise i found out that connection is superb
17:19:38 <litwol> even while i was riding above ground subway car
17:19:41 <sbp> home button is the button on the front of the iPhone
17:19:43 <jsled> app switching is not multitasking?
17:19:51 <sbp> so, double click now makes it raise up a kind of dock
17:19:54 <Morbus> well, the key here is that state retains.
17:19:56 <sbp> jsled: yeah, confused about that too
17:19:57 <jsled> right.
17:20:05 <litwol> shit
17:20:06 <sbp> 10:19AM "So to explain how we did this while preserving battery and performance... Scott Forstall."
17:20:14 <Morbus> Jason Chen:
17:20:14 <Morbus> Every one of these apps (mail, the game, Safari) retains the state it was in instead of launching from scratch. You know, like multitasking is supposed to work.
17:20:17 <litwol> i cant haz os4 until it jailborks
17:20:20 <[bjoern]> http://www.theonion.com/video/breaking-news-some-bullshit-happening-somewhere,16928/
17:20:25 <sbp> ah! 10:18AM "And again, I can go home anytime I want. Boom I'm home. Make sense? Really simple UI, puts all the apps at the bottom that are running." You can scroll through the list.
17:20:35 <sbp> so not just limited to four apps in the dock!
17:20:37 <sbp> like you are now
17:21:09 <sbp> ooh, I think this is gonna be CLEVERSHITS
17:21:10 <sbp> 10:20AM - Scott’s up: “How are we adding multitasking while preserving battery life and performance. We looked at tens of thousands of apps in the app store, and we’ve distilled the services those apps need to run in the background. So we implemented those services, and we’re providing those services as APIs to developers so they can add multitasking while preserving battery life.”
17:21:33 <jsled> interesting. The Droid does "hold 'home' to get the app list". I wonder if they did double-click just to be different.
17:21:44 <sbp> first one is obvious and sensible:
17:21:44 <sbp> 10:21AM - “We’re providing seven multitasking services. First: background audio streaming.” Talking about Pandora — exactly who should be getting this first! “Pandora is great, but until now if you left Pandora to go to another app, the music would stop.” Not anymor
17:21:47 <Morbus> what'sthe home button? that literal button at the bottom?
17:21:48 <jsled> wait.
17:21:50 *** danbri (~danbri@ip176-48-210-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) has joined #swhack
17:21:53 <sbp> Morbus: yup
17:21:55 <sbp> yo danbri!
17:21:59 <jsled> So, not actual multi-tasking at the app level.
17:22:12 <sbp> heh, now they've got someone from Pandora
17:22:21 <Morbus> i like double tapping better than holding anyways. there's more force feedback to know you're doing it right.
17:22:21 * jeanniecool licks danbri
17:22:24 <sbp> jsled: nope, looks like they took a very detailed look at WHY we multitask
17:22:29 <jeanniecool> MORBUS.
17:22:38 <sbp> and then restructured the how of multitasking around the why
17:22:45 <sbp> which they've narrowed down to these seven services
17:22:51 <Arnia> explains why it took so long
17:22:56 <sbp> ...Arnia has been kinda talking about this, so I already understand
17:23:00 <Morbus> yeah
17:23:04 * danbri grins, waves hi
17:23:09 * Arnia should become an analyst
17:23:13 <Morbus> sup, danbri. jeanniecool. longtime.
17:23:14 <sbp> heh: 10:22AM "It took us one day to make Pandora fully background aware on the iPhone."
17:23:27 <jeanniecool> indeed, d00d.
17:23:46 <jsled> wait … if you can control the music while the thing's locked, how do you lock the lock screen so you can't pocket-pause?
17:24:01 <Morbus> magic!
17:24:04 * Morbus flurls fingers.
17:24:06 <sbp> control while it's locked?
17:24:14 <Arnia> jsled: the iPhone has proximity sensors
17:24:14 <Morbus> 10:23AM They're showing off multitasking with Pandora in the background. It's... playing in the background. Pretty seamless experience, which is good.
17:24:30 <Arnia> jsled: so it can autolock in the pocket
17:24:59 *** jetx (~jetscream@unaffiliated/jetscreamer) has joined #swhack
17:25:30 <[bjoern]> 'The 27-year-old Qatari diplomat who caused a full-blown, midair security scare when he tried to sneak a cigarette and then joked about it should be recalled or expelled for doing just about "everything wrong"'
17:25:46 <sbp> 'The next API is VOIP. The demo app: Skype.'
17:26:03 <sbp> bet messaging is one of these APIs
17:26:09 <sbp> I hope IRC doesn't get pissed on
17:26:22 <Morbus> irc? pff. that jabber crap instead.
17:26:24 <Morbus> ;)
17:27:05 <litwol> phone multi-tasking == "you had little screen realestate, now you have less! woohow"
17:27:18 <danbri> morbus yeah, i lost #swhack in some irc client switchover
17:27:19 <sbp> 10:26AM "Until today navigating away from the app meant that I would go offline. Now I go into the background, but I can still receive calls." Call coming through... in a pop up!
17:27:21 <sbp> a popup?
17:27:22 <danbri> all fine here
17:27:42 <sbp> oh, here it is: http://c1291262.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/apple-iphone-os4_117.jpg
17:27:54 <Morbus> litwol: only on request:
17:27:54 <Morbus> He clicks a link and goes to the browser. The website loads, and he wants to go back to reading his mail. What does he do? He double clicks the home button, and a window rasies up and shows all the apps that are running. He picks mail (4 are visible at once), and goes back to mail.
17:27:57 <Arnia> sbp: got to have something to piss people off
17:28:00 <sbp> yeah
17:28:01 *** jetscreamer has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
17:28:22 <[bjoern]> "Japanese firm creates hybrid whaling ship"
17:28:25 <Arnia> actually, for me, popups are a more annoying thing than no multitasking
17:28:37 <danbri> what're they cross-breeding whales with?
17:28:37 <sbp> agreed. focus stealing = PLEASE STOP, PLEASE
17:28:46 <sbp> danbri: scots
17:28:47 * Morbus likes his focus where he wants it.
17:28:48 <litwol> Morbus: cool. so they added new app browser mode for the programmable double click home button effect
17:29:17 *** Talliesin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
17:29:18 <sbp> "Third API: Background location."
17:29:19 <sbp> as in GPS?
17:29:32 <Morbus> nah, whether you're a narc or a hippioe.
17:29:49 <Morbus> Jason Chen:
17:29:49 <Morbus> There are two types of classes, like turn-by-turn navigation (TomTom), so they can continuously monitor your location to tell you when to turn. “Until now, when you left an app like TomTom it would stop tracking your location and stop giving your directions.”
17:29:58 <sbp> kind of a weird list so far
17:30:21 <sbp> music, fine. voip sounds like specific network + music...
17:30:30 <Morbus> sbp: the last one is gonna be "Achievements API"
17:30:33 <sbp> and this ... hehe
17:30:41 <Morbus> god, i would buy an iphone right now if so.
17:30:42 <Morbus> ;)
17:30:46 <sbp> this one just doesn't seem like a killer multitasking reason
17:30:58 <danbri> are you at some event or transcribing off some video stream?
17:31:03 <sbp> but I guess they did the numbers. maybe the TomTom app is really popular
17:31:04 * danbri is clearly out of touch
17:31:14 <sbp> didn't think it would go Pandora, Skype, TomTom
17:31:16 <Morbus> sbp: it's one of the reasons i've sold my mate on the ipad.
17:31:26 <Morbus> danbri: transcribing off multiple blogs.
17:31:31 <Morbus> iphone os 4 announcement.
17:31:35 <sbp> danbri: (1) http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/08/live-from-apples-iphone-os-4-event/?sort=newest&refresh=60 (2) http://live.gdgt.com/2010/04/08/live-iphone-os-4-0-event-coverage/ (3) http://live.gizmodo.com/
17:31:48 <sbp> loopt: heh
17:32:22 * danbri kinda somewhat cares as i'm making an iphone remote control app
17:32:28 <danbri> so having background mode is useful
17:32:34 <sbp> good: 10:31AM - “With all these location services, we take privacy very, very seriously. We’re taking it several steps further in iPhone OS 4.0. First, we’re adding an indicator to the status bar if something is tracking your location. Next: we’re adding fine-grained settings so you can enable/disable location on per application.”
17:32:37 <danbri> having different vibrate settings would be cool too
17:32:38 * litwol dies of hunger and his soul goes to haunt the local sushi restaurant.
17:32:43 *** litwol has parted #swhack (""if you are not 100% unavailable for at least 2 hours a day, you probably aren't getting much done that's of any importance."")
17:32:53 <Arnia> Do the two classes count as different APIs?
17:33:07 <sbp> push notifcations next
17:33:15 <sbp> which, up, I guess includes IRC
17:33:17 <sbp> *um
17:33:49 <sbp> 10:33AM - “Building on push notifications, we’re building on the service and adding local notifications: they’re like push notifications, except there’s no server, they’re all done ON the phone.” This is hot, and definitely needed.
17:34:05 <sbp> wonder if they're rate limited
17:34:27 <sbp> screaming through now
17:34:27 <sbp> 10:33AM - “The next is task completion. One is like Flickr: sometimes photos can take a while to upload. With task completion, Flickr can continue to upload those photos in the background when you browse away. Our last service: fast app switching
17:34:33 <sbp> so wait, task completion!
17:34:34 <Arnia> For IM services, push notifications are generally sufficient (with apps like Beejive)
17:34:58 <Morbus> TASK COMPLETOIN?!
17:35:01 <Morbus> I GOT MY ACHIEVEMNTS API!
17:35:10 <sbp> iPad is rising to 70:30 already
17:35:20 <Morbus> ?
17:35:30 <sbp> my likelihood of getting one
17:35:40 <Morbus> I ALREADY GOT ONE.
17:35:41 <Morbus> ;)
17:35:42 <sbp> huh
17:35:43 <sbp> Folders
17:35:49 <sbp> filesystem stuff cometh
17:35:52 <Arnia> They seem to have done multitasking right
17:35:52 <sbp> yeah, heh
17:35:57 <Arnia> and folders... disappointing
17:36:01 <sbp> except focus stealing
17:36:03 <sbp> well, wait
17:36:10 <sbp> you dunno how they've done it yet :-)
17:36:26 <Morbus> ACHIEVEMENTS API!
17:36:28 <sbp> 10:35AM - “As people are downloading more and more apps, you’re having to flick from page to page to find them. People want a better way to organize them — instead of talking about them, I want to show you, it’s beautiful.”
17:36:29 <Arnia> truedat
17:36:40 <Morbus> sounds more like groups, as opposed to folders.
17:36:47 <sbp> so it's folders only to arrange your apps
17:36:47 <Arnia> Morbus: you're happy as larry, george and that french exchange student down the corridor
17:36:59 <Morbus> Arnia: well
17:37:04 <Arnia> Quicklook is interesting btw
17:37:13 <Arnia> I wonder if they'll be opening up Spotlight on the phone
17:37:13 <Morbus> the task completion thing isn't really teh achievements api.
17:37:15 <jsled> AAPL up 7.11%
17:37:22 <Arnia> jsled: really?
17:37:25 <Arnia> that's a lot...
17:37:32 <Morbus> what really needs to happen is someone has to make a centralized server of achievements and let iApps talk to it.
17:37:32 <jsled> .title http://www.google.com/finance?q=aapl
17:37:33 <phenny> jsled: Apple Inc. - Google Finance
17:37:36 <jsled> pfft.
17:37:38 <Morbus> like achievemental.
17:37:40 <Morbus> ;)
17:37:53 <jsled> er, nevermind me.
17:37:54 <sbp> —
17:37:55 <sbp> Jason Chen:
17:37:55 <sbp> Jobs is going to make a folder full of games. You make one by dragging one app on top of another, and it automatically makes a folder containing the two apps. It also automatically names the folder based on the category that these apps came from.
17:37:55 <sbp> —
17:38:00 <sbp> cleeeever
17:38:15 <sbp> though, like, wonder if you can autogroup
17:38:33 <sbp> "You can have two separate images for the wallpaper and the lock screen"
17:38:56 <edsu> Morbus: w00t http://twitter.com/morbusiff/status/840293549
17:39:27 <Morbus> edsu: i probably should have waited until my two year anniversary, but eh ;)
17:39:29 <sbp> 180 -> 2,160 apps
17:39:36 <Morbus> i wanted to participate in #fridayflash quicker than that
17:39:56 <Morbus> i am totally going to get 2160 apps.
17:40:10 <sbp> 10:39AM - “Let’s go to tent-pole number three: an enhanced mail. We’ve added a lot of great features to mail."
17:40:46 <sbp> #3 might be a wake-me-up-when-it's-done thing
17:41:16 <Morbus> yeah. my needs for mail when i'm downstairs are so slim that i don't really care what the mail client does.
17:41:19 <sbp> "And open attachments. Tap on it, open with an app downloaded from the App Store"
17:41:39 <Morbus> "10:40AM "Now if you want to focus on one account, we've added fast inbox switching. In addition we've added the option to organize by thread." Finally!"
17:41:48 <Morbus> no one complained when outlook or outlook express couldn't organize by threads.
17:42:10 <sbp> I don't get what 'If you want to go to one account, there’s “fast inbox switching.”' means
17:42:20 <Morbus> sounds like just a quick filter based on account name.
17:42:24 <sbp> ah
17:42:28 <Morbus> i.e., "do not use the new unified inbox"
17:42:40 <sbp> not really a switch in my mind, but okay
17:42:52 <sbp> heh. Tentpole number four: iBooks support.
17:42:56 <sbp> that's not a tentpole
17:42:58 <danbri> any xmpp stuff mentioned?
17:43:06 <Morbus> not by name.
17:43:10 <Morbus> but there's api related to push
17:43:19 <Arnia> The Push API already existed
17:43:24 <Morbus> *new background/multtask
17:43:32 <Arnia> It has just been grouped into the multitasking APIs
17:43:39 <sbp> though, comes with free Winnie the Pooh
17:43:44 <Arnia> sbp: it may be for some people
17:43:51 <Morbus> "10:42AM "We're going to wirelessly sync your books between platforms... and free Winnie The Pooh."
17:43:51 <Morbus> "
17:43:56 <Morbus> pooh++
17:44:00 <sbp> no I mean... I don't see how it's an API tentpole exactly
17:44:10 <Morbus> it's not an api tentpole.
17:44:13 <sbp> why do other apps care about iBooks?
17:44:14 <Morbus> it's a new feature tentpole.
17:44:22 <Morbus> we left api a while back.
17:44:31 <sbp> oh, I thought there were all API stuff. makes sense though, Mail wasn't
17:44:31 <Morbus> enterprise. wake me when it's done.
17:44:40 <sbp> hehe
17:44:54 <Arnia> strangely fussy icon for Enterprise
17:45:02 <Morbus> yeah, what the hell.
17:45:04 <Arnia> http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/iphone40software/iphone40software225.jpg
17:45:07 <Morbus> you really didn't need to draw every single window
17:45:11 <Morbus> we get it.
17:45:22 <sbp> every single window... hehe
17:45:38 <sbp> they represent all the businesses that Apple cares about, silly
17:45:40 <Morbus> pooh: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/04/iphone-os-4-0259-rm-eng.jpg
17:45:53 <sbp> huh, looks good on the iPhone
17:45:57 <Morbus> yeah, it does.
17:46:04 <Arnia> Enterprise is interesting to me
17:46:07 <Morbus> i'm sure there are far worse examples.
17:46:11 <sbp> Game Center
17:46:21 <Arnia> mostly cos I'm interested in how well they grow in the enterprise space
17:46:25 <Morbus> "Wireless app distribution. Before this, you’d have to plug into iTunes to get this app. But now companies can wirelessly distribute the app from their own servers to anywhere."
17:46:27 <sbp> WAKE UP MORBUS
17:46:28 <sbp> GAMES
17:46:29 <Morbus> erm. why can't normal people have this?
17:46:31 <Morbus> GAMES?!
17:46:37 <Morbus> ACHIEVEMENTS API! WARCRAFT! PORN!
17:46:42 <Morbus> well, maybe not the first two.
17:46:43 <Morbus> but PORN!
17:46:46 <sbp> http://c1291262.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/apple-iphone-os4_179.jpg
17:46:50 <sbp> hehe
17:46:51 <Morbus> game center?!
17:46:53 <Arnia> Game Centre icon is very fussy too
17:46:55 * Morbus hops from foot to foot.
17:46:59 <Morbus> SHUTDDUP. GAMES
17:47:07 <Morbus> I CAN PLAY BAsEBALL ON MY PHONE! AND FUCKING DARTS?!
17:47:08 <Monty> potty mouth!
17:47:09 <Morbus> \o/
17:47:10 * Morbus grins.
17:47:17 <sbp> I like the game icon
17:47:22 <jsled> darts?
17:47:32 <sbp> Morbus: you can play them BOTH AT THE SAME TIME now!
17:47:33 <Morbus> yeah. the icon. darts.
17:47:34 <jsled> if they did it right, it could be awesome.
17:47:39 <Morbus> sbp: YAY!
17:47:42 <Arnia> ouch, ngmoco are going to be spitting feathers
17:47:44 <Morbus> achievements api. come on apple, don't fuck with me.
17:47:52 <Morbus> //
17:47:53 <Morbus> 10:46AM Wow. So Apple's got their Xbox Live. This is kind of huge. Achievements, leaderboards, match making.
17:47:53 <Morbus> 10:46AM Wow. So Apple's got their Xbox Live. This is kind of huge. Achievements, leaderboards, match making.
17:47:53 <Morbus> 10:46AM Wow. So Apple's got their Xbox Live. This is kind of huge. Achievements, leaderboards, match making.
17:47:54 <Morbus> 10:46AM Wow. So Apple's got their Xbox Live. This is kind of huge. Achievements, leaderboards, match making.
17:47:57 <Morbus> 10:46AM Wow. So Apple's got their Xbox Live. This is kind of huge. Achievements, leaderboards, match making.
17:48:00 <Morbus> 10:46AM Wow. So Apple's got their Xbox Live. This is kind of huge. Achievements, leaderboards, match making.
17:48:02 <sbp> hahaha
17:48:03 <Morbus> ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?!
17:48:05 * Morbus dies and goes to heaven
17:48:07 * Morbus comes back down, gets na iphone.
17:48:08 <Arnia> hehe
17:48:09 * Morbus dies and goes to heaven
17:48:13 <jsled> nice
17:48:16 <Morbus> i can't fucking believe it.
17:48:19 <Morbus> i am so fucking thrilled right now.
17:48:23 <Morbus> you don't even know.
17:48:25 <sbp> Jason Chen:
17:48:25 <sbp> Also, achievements! Achievements!! Yay.
17:48:25 <Arnia> Heaven + iPhone = Super-Affirmative Afterlife?
17:48:27 <sbp> laughing so hard
17:48:36 <sbp> I can't believe they actually fucking FEATURED achievements
17:48:36 <Morbus> http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/04/iphone-os-4-0286-rm-eng.jpg
17:48:37 <sbp> hahaha
17:48:44 <Morbus> i need a fucking towel, because i am jerking off.
17:48:55 <sbp> you know what, I just saved that photo
17:48:55 <sbp> hehe
17:49:02 <sbp> automatically, because this is a Moment
17:49:11 <Morbus> my heart is fluttering.
17:49:16 <Morbus> it's so lame, because it really is true.
17:49:18 <Morbus> i'm super excited.
17:49:30 <sbp> yay, they saved the evil till last: The seventh tentpole is iAd. Mobile advertising. They’re going to build advertising right into the iPhone OS 4.
17:49:34 <Morbus> 14 of 50 achievements.
17:49:53 <Morbus> 10:48AM "We have a lot of free or reasonably priced apps... we like that, but our devs have to find ways to make money. So our devs are putting ads into apps, and for lack of a better way to say it, we think most of this kind of advertising sucks." Ouch!
17:49:59 <sbp> man. a social gaming network on the iPad and iPhone
17:50:11 <sbp> correct
17:50:25 <Morbus> sbp: and i'll get it through the ipad, since i'll just 2x anything on the iphone not ther.
17:50:27 <sbp> so there's going to be some kind of horrible fucking catch
17:50:28 <Monty> potty mouth!
17:50:30 <Morbus> i am so going to be an ipad achievement whore.
17:50:33 * Morbus dances. /me dances.
17:50:35 <sbp> hehe
17:50:42 <Morbus> sbp: omg, we can compete!
17:50:45 * Morbus dances. /me dances.
17:50:57 <sbp> I am going to WHIP YOUR ASS at Galcon man
17:51:03 <Morbus> I MUST BEGIN PRACTICING>
17:51:06 <sbp> I need to st... hahaha
17:51:11 <sbp> +++
17:51:49 <Morbus> so, my mate is out in the backyard raking.
17:51:53 <Morbus> she's about 400 feet away.
17:52:03 <Morbus> i just opened up the window and shouted out, in a quiet neighboard, the iphone has achievements!
17:52:11 <Morbus> it was quiet, and then she said "oh no"
17:52:14 <Morbus> ++++
17:52:15 <sbp> heh@
17:52:16 <sbp> !
17:52:23 <sbp> I guffawed a little bit there
17:52:27 <sbp> almost inhaled my lamb
17:52:52 <sbp> trying to concentrate on iAds... I don't quite understand yet
17:53:07 <Morbus> Apple will sell and host the ads, and will give developers 60% split of the revenue.
17:53:16 <Morbus> omg.
17:53:18 <Morbus> is there an ipad wiki?
17:53:24 <Morbus> i must being cataloguing the achievemnets!
17:53:25 * Morbus froths.
17:53:31 <Morbus> omg.
17:53:37 <Morbus> i really have to calm down. i'm gonna have a heart attack.
17:53:40 <sbp> ah, mockups forthcoming
17:53:42 <Morbus> fucking burritos and shamrock shake.
17:53:42 <sbp> hehe
17:53:48 <Arnia> For an addictive collector... this is either heaven or hell
17:53:50 <Arnia> or both
17:53:55 <sbp> both, surely
17:53:59 <Morbus> Arnia: it is heaven
17:54:10 <Morbus> if it's hell, baby, i'm sucking at satan's teat like a newborn calf.
17:54:14 <sbp> until your fucking brain explodes Morbus
17:54:17 <Arnia> ++
17:54:32 <Morbus> "10:53AM "We've taken some brands that we love and made some ads for them... we made some fun ads, these are not endorsements.""
17:54:46 <sbp> I'm still laughing at the fact that they added achievements
17:55:09 <sbp> ehheh: 10:54AM "Here's some news... there's an ad for Toy Story 3 down there... it's a great movie Disney is putting out. I've seen it, it's a really good movie!" Ha! Big laughs. "So all this is done in HTML5 by the way." Ouch! More laughs for Steve.
17:55:26 <Morbus> morbusiff
17:55:26 <Morbus> 
17:55:26 <Morbus> #achievements for #iphoneos4. I am in heaven right now. Dedicated achievement whore for everything. I arr teh swooning. Can't wait.
17:55:26 <Monty> "diligent clear cache and speaking to contrast the purpose
17:55:29 <Morbus> i fucking tweeted that bitch.
17:55:34 <sbp> 10:55AM So Steve is showing a completely interactive ad here, almost like a sub-app inside the application. Embedded video, toys to play with. Really impressive as far as mobile advertising goes. If that kind of thing excites you.
17:55:36 <Arnia> "I can implement achievements, I can implement achievements, I can imple... THEY ADDED ACHIEVEMENTS"
17:55:47 <Morbus> Arnia: yeah! that was totally what it iwas.
17:55:57 <danbri> are the ads wired to 1-click purchasability?
17:55:58 <Morbus> i was kidding the whole time, and then they did it
17:56:02 <Morbus> i can't believe it. i'm so happy.
17:56:06 <sbp> 10:55AM - Showing off the interactivity of the ad presence. It’s pretty good — kind of like an integrated microsite in a window. “They even included a game in this ad! Well… we included the game.” Chuckles.
17:56:08 <Morbus> like, tear in my eye happy.
17:56:47 <sbp> danbri: 10:56AM "I've got posters here... and I can just tap them and add them as wallpaper. Theaters, I can see where the movie is playing." Nice, it's using the Maps API.
17:56:58 <sbp> even scarier than 1-click, heh
17:57:18 <Arnia> I think it is a good thing
17:57:28 <Arnia> if ads work well, they're not offensive
17:57:43 <Arnia> They've put a quality bar in, in effect, by making these demos
17:57:44 <sbp> yeah, but it's like the ads on my site
17:57:51 <sbp> I did the complete opposite of everyone else in humanity
17:57:52 <Morbus> i agree.
17:58:01 <sbp> I just put in simple pretty text links with nice styling
17:58:02 <Morbus> i have no real problem with ads.
17:58:07 <sbp> utterly unobtrusive
17:58:11 <sbp> and so EVERYBODY noticed them
17:58:14 <Arnia> plus an API that gives no excuse for not using it...
17:58:17 <sbp> because it flowed so damn nicely
17:58:23 <Morbus> sbp: did i tell you?
17:58:26 <Arnia> well, some excuse, but the barrier to entry with the API is really low
17:58:28 <Morbus> one of the ampheta pages is back to PR 9
17:58:31 <Morbus> i'm raking it in again
17:58:32 <sbp> yup you did!
17:58:45 <sbp> grats/envy, etc. :-)
17:59:03 <sbp> 10:56AM "And, there's a Toy Story Mania game that I can buy right in this ad, inside of this app. Have you ever seen an ad like this?" Pause. "Anything even close?"
17:59:03 <Monty> WHY/WP
17:59:12 <sbp> shuppit Monty
17:59:14 <Monty> After all, cherry tickles frosted axe.
17:59:16 <Morbus> sbp: i sent my ad guy a "hurry up and send me the check so i can buy an ipad" and he replied with "'ere you go. you can buy 5 now."
17:59:26 <jeanniecool> Morbus, 4.5 months of shopping until my birthday.
17:59:32 <sbp> 10:58AM - Showing Dunks progressing through the years. Nike ID: “shake your iPhone to get another.” So they’ve done some serious OS-level integration with these ads, which is clearly a huge, huge difference from where things are today.
17:59:38 <sbp> Morbus: ehheh
17:59:49 <Morbus> Jason Chen:
17:59:49 <Morbus> “Have you ever seen an ad like this?” *silence* “Anything even close?” *laughter*
18:00:04 <Arnia> Oh, Steve Jobs is GOOD
18:00:11 <Morbus> "Steve seems pretty pumped about these new opportunities. Certainly more jazzed than he was about iBooks."
18:00:14 * Arnia has to admire that level of public speaking
18:00:18 <sbp> chuckle: Steve seems pretty pumped about these new opportunities. Certainly more jazzed than he was about iBooks.
18:00:22 <sbp> heh
18:00:57 <Morbus> @stevejobs please get back to the #achievements. kthx. love @morbusiff.
18:01:10 <sbp> hehe
18:01:45 * Morbus must now design an app that has achievements.
18:01:50 <Morbus> that's a good question, actually...
18:02:02 <Morbus> i wonder hwo this is gonna be implemented - what would stop a normal app from hvaing achievements?
18:02:22 <Morbus> "mispelt shit for the umpteeth time. +10"
18:02:25 <jsled> What, like foursquare?
18:02:34 <Morbus> jsled: well, fs already has achievements.
18:02:37 <jsled> right.
18:02:39 <Morbus> but, yeah, could fs hook into it?
18:02:53 <Morbus> jsled: and yeah, i heard about foursquare aqhiwle ago, *because* of the achieveemnts.
18:02:58 <Morbus> and then i saw it was all about going outside and shit
18:03:00 <Morbus> totally lost interest.
18:03:07 <jsled> I'm having a hard time figuring out what's interesting about these ads. They're just webpages, effectively, right? Except Apple mediates them? And takes a 40% (60%) cut of … I guess the micropayment/clicktracking is the key thing.
18:03:14 <jsled> heh.
18:03:17 <Morbus> even the pull of achievements can't make me go outside.
18:03:45 <Morbus> "nd users will get these features this Summer"
18:03:48 <Morbus> ACHIEVEMENTS.
18:03:55 <Arnia> jsled: there is the quality bar aspect (for app developers, they want the ads to be interesting enough that they'll get good revenue and not piss off their users)
18:03:59 <jsled> ah, apple sells the ads, too.
18:04:02 <Morbus> wait. what?
18:04:07 <Arnia> jsled: there is also the ubiquity aspect (for advertisers)
18:04:07 <Monty> doubt it, open if i'm trying on it, open with ^G)
18:04:09 <Morbus> http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/iphone40software/iphone40software351.jpg
18:04:11 <Morbus> what the fuck is that?!
18:04:15 <Arnia> so it is trying to set up a win win deal
18:04:18 <Morbus> i can't wait until fall for the fucking achievemnts! i'll never catch up!
18:04:23 * Morbus must buy an iphone this weekend.
18:04:59 <Arnia> The two OS branches must still be quite separated
18:05:09 <Arnia> that says a lot about the internal development process actually
18:05:30 <Arnia> they must have had to hack around a fair amount with the iPhone OS 3.2
18:05:48 <Morbus> 11:02AM "And, we're bringing OS 4 to the iPad this Fall."
18:05:51 <Morbus> yeah. damn.
18:05:55 <Morbus> must get an iphone this weekend.
18:05:57 <Arnia> hm... I need to upgrade my iPhone
18:05:59 * Morbus looks online to see what the plans are.
18:06:17 <Morbus> Jason Chen:
18:06:17 <Morbus> Not sure if there are any features that weren’t mentioned here, but will be in iPhone 4, that will be expressly for the NEW iPhone 4 that’s coming this summer.
18:06:19 <Morbus> wait, what?
18:06:20 <Monty> Heaven + descending not set created_at to most are the resoluteness of Herefordshire and for that. Sorry.
18:06:23 <Morbus> there's a new iphone coming out this summer too?
18:06:51 <Morbus> since when? is that new?
18:07:01 <Arnia> They upgrade annually
18:07:10 <Morbus> right, but has it been announced? can i see it?
18:07:20 <Morbus> i'll wait to buy an iphone 4 then.
18:07:25 <Arnia> It isn't announced, usually, until WWDC
18:07:34 <Arnia> then released two weeks later
18:07:36 <Morbus> ty
18:15:11 <Morbus> 11:12AM Q: Will there be an ad approval process? A: (Jobs... super long pause) Um... well there's going to be some process... but these people are paying to run ads. So, I'm not sure it'll be anything other than a light touch.
18:15:58 <Morbus> Jason Chen:
18:15:58 <Morbus> Q: Are there going to be achievement points, like Xbox Live?
18:15:58 <Morbus> Arnia: We’re still looking at point options.
18:16:09 <Arnia> Are you?
18:16:15 <Arnia> :p
18:16:26 <Morbus> Jason Chen:
18:16:26 <Morbus> Q: “Will multitasking increase data usage, and how is AT&T prepared to handle this?”
18:16:26 <Morbus> Arnia: “I’m not so sure it will. We’ll find out though.”
18:16:26 <Morbus> This was a very tense answer as the questionnaire kept saying that it will use more data, and Jobs implied that she was wrong, and no data points to this.
18:16:34 <Morbus> gah.
18:16:40 <Morbus> fucking thing is autocomplting A: to Arnia:
18:16:41 <Morbus> sorry.
18:16:48 <Arnia> No worries... I find it funny
18:16:52 <Morbus> Arnia: does this work?
18:16:54 <Morbus> wow, it does.
18:16:56 <Arnia> I like having Steve Jobs' words in my mouth
18:16:57 <Morbus> sbp: how about this?
18:17:01 <Morbus> crazy
18:17:06 <Morbus> danbri: and a plain d does what?
18:17:16 <Morbus> looks like it autocompletes first match *on submit*
18:17:19 <Morbus> i never see the autocomplete. how odd.
18:17:30 <danbri> whatnoweh?
18:17:38 <Morbus> ignore it.
18:17:46 <Morbus> danbri: AcHIEVEMENTS!
18:17:48 * Morbus grins.
18:17:58 <Morbus> http://www.iphoneachievements.org/
18:18:01 <Morbus> the hell? <g>
18:18:42 <Morbus> interesting: http://www.agon-online.com/
18:18:53 <Morbus> looks like someone already made one
18:19:25 <Arnia> Death by Apple
18:19:34 <Morbus> i don't mind.
18:19:34 <sbp> does anybody know how to sync ftp easily?
18:19:34 <Arnia> Q: Why have you veered away from widgets on the iPad?
18:19:34 <Arnia> A: We just shipped it on Saturday. And then we rested on Sunday.
18:19:35 <Morbus> ;)
18:19:36 <sbp> e.g. with rsync?
18:19:59 <Arnia> oh, the Engadget crowd are going to love that
18:20:12 <Morbus> heh,heh
18:20:22 <Morbus> afk.
18:20:26 <Morbus> off to dream about achievements.
18:20:28 <Arnia> sbp: zftp maybe
18:20:59 <Arnia> .g zftp
18:21:01 <phenny> Arnia: http://www.zftpserver.com/
18:21:05 * BigJibby sinks ftp
18:21:08 <Arnia> .wik zftp
18:21:10 <BigJibby> I SUNK FTP!
18:21:10 <phenny> "zFTPServer Suite is a commercial (limited free for personal use) Windows FTP server." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZFTPServer_Suite
18:21:14 * Arnia sighs
18:21:16 *** Morbus has parted #swhack ("http://www.disobey.com/")
18:21:19 <Arnia> .g zsh ftp
18:21:20 <phenny> Arnia: http://www.zsh.org/
18:21:23 <sbp> oh, wget -m might work
18:21:23 <Arnia> ...
18:23:05 <BigJibby> lftp ?
18:24:33 <sbp> wget -m is working fine
18:24:53 <BigJibby> fine.
18:25:18 * BigJibby stroms off
18:25:27 * BigJibby the storms off
18:25:34 * BigJibby gives up
18:26:14 * Arnia downranks BigJibby's 'flounce' achievement
18:31:20 * Arnia laughs at the porn store comment
18:31:29 <Arnia> Utterly inappropriate, but still...
18:34:50 *** Talliesin (~Talliesin@ip-89-234-81-124.dub-3rk.metro.digiweb.ie) has joined #swhack
18:35:25 *** Talliesin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
18:36:59 <Arnia> Q: How will the App Store change with 4? Discoverability and organization is a problem. How will you improve that?
18:36:59 <Arnia> A: (Steve) The App Store is not part of iPhone OS 4, it's a service, and it is programmed mostly on the server side. We can enhance it without waiting for a major release. We can constantly improve it.
18:37:00 <Arnia> We have to be careful that we don't bring the service down -- as you've noticed it has a very high uptime. In terms of discoverability, we've added Genius, but I also see an infrastructure starting to evolve to help people find apps.
18:37:00 <Arnia> What I see happening is that there's a lot building up outside and around the iPhone, that are starting to provide some of that recommendation.
18:40:26 *** jeanniecool has quit (Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The professional IRC Client :D)
18:43:25 <Arnia> Hm... not restricted to iAd and Game Centre
18:43:30 <Arnia> they must be really confident
18:46:20 <Arnia> One person's wishlist from MacRumors before the event:
18:46:47 <Arnia> "- Universal inbox, Individual call deletion, Multi tasking, App consolidation (folders for games, the way it is when you JB). Any of those 2 is fine with me" — http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=9604869&postcount=48
18:51:39 *** appletizer has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
18:53:16 <Arnia> Can someone tell me what 'tap to focus video' means?
18:54:34 <BigJibby> tap on the top left corner of your monitor
18:54:54 <BigJibby> did it do anything?
18:55:17 <Arnia> No :p
18:55:27 <BigJibby> ok, good.
18:57:15 <Arnia> People already complaining that this isn't real multitasking
19:03:29 *** jeanniecool (~jeannieco@c-67-183-217-79.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #swhack
19:07:39 <jeanniecool> Penis!
19:08:11 <nslater> summary of the iphone stuff i dont care about?
19:09:11 <[bjoern]> jeanniecool just gave it, yes.
19:10:09 <Arnia> nslater: which bits don't you care about?
19:10:09 <nslater> sweet. thanks
19:10:27 <nslater> well, i am about as excited about this as i would be about, dunno - freenode upgrading a server
19:10:45 <nslater> it will affect me - but im not particularly fussed about when i find out about it
19:10:50 <nslater> is there anything important i should know?
19:10:59 <nslater> will i get the new stuffs eventually without doing anything?
19:11:07 <Arnia> Yes... some of it
19:11:15 <Arnia> you'll get everything announced today
19:11:33 <Arnia> but there is usually more announced with the new model (features that only work on that model)
19:11:46 <nslater> ah. thats kinda ... weird
19:11:51 <nslater> unless the model includes new hardware
19:11:59 <nslater> as in - well obviously it will
19:12:09 <Arnia> If it didn't include new hardware, it wouldn't be a new model...
19:12:13 <nslater> heh, yep
19:12:16 <nslater> i realised that after typing
19:12:18 <nslater> what i mean is
19:12:28 <nslater> i wonder what software they will do that wont work with mine
19:12:34 <Arnia> Ok, an example from 3G -> 3GS is voice control
19:12:36 <nslater> and why not. etc. hardware, or marketing?
19:12:39 <nslater> it is?
19:12:43 <nslater> is that a hardware change?
19:12:47 <Arnia> they implemented voice control using DSP chips
19:12:47 <nslater> sounds like software to me
19:12:50 <nslater> okay
19:12:54 <nslater> schooled.
19:12:56 <nslater> :p
19:13:08 <Arnia> so the processor doesn't get taxed by it
19:13:26 <Arnia> (hell, my laptop can be slow at voice recognition)
19:13:41 <nslater> what is the "buzz"? what's the "hot new thing"
19:13:49 <nslater> is there some page i can just look at?
19:13:50 <Arnia> Um, there are 7 of them apparently
19:13:54 <nslater> k..
19:14:03 <Arnia> admittedly some aren't of interest to some people
19:14:39 <Arnia> 1 API level thing, 4 application level things, 2 service level things
19:14:49 <Arnia> (if I remember correctly)
19:15:28 <nslater> okay, just chcked them all
19:15:32 <nslater> http://www.apple.com/iphone/preview-iphone-os/
19:15:44 <nslater> not sure i care about any of that
19:15:57 <nslater> threaded email will be cool
19:15:57 <Monty> 89
19:16:10 <nslater> i wish the iphone actually synced the To Do items from Mail.app
19:16:13 * nslater grumbles
19:16:17 <Arnia> I'm pleased with most of them
19:16:30 <nslater> dont get me wrong - i dont dislike them. but im not excited by them either
19:16:38 <nslater> reading a book on my iphone sounds hilariously unpleasurable
19:17:00 <nslater> and this is coming from a man who has a published book available on the iphone!
19:17:01 <nslater> heh
19:17:07 <Arnia> I often read books on my phone
19:17:14 <Arnia> I use Stanza
19:17:21 <Arnia> it is good when on the bus or on a train
19:17:27 <jsled> .o twitter diveintomark
19:17:28 <phenny> <@diveintomark> @mdh you must be new here. (http://twitter.com/diveintomark/statuses/11838968211)
19:17:34 <jsled> dang, missed it.
19:18:00 <Arnia> what was it?
19:18:12 <jsled> http://twitter.com/diveintomark/status/11838190060
19:20:21 <Arnia> Snide, disingenuous and frankly ignorant
19:24:06 <jsled> ignorant of?
19:25:28 <Arnia> Ignorant of the actual words used
19:26:21 <Arnia> of the way the world works (with regards to what normal people actually like)
19:26:32 * Arnia is in a *really* bad mood today
19:26:36 <[bjoern]> "New Law Requires Women To Name Baby, Paint Nursery Before Getting Abortion"
19:26:39 <Arnia> hm... may have an early night
19:28:03 *** lisppaste2 (~lisppaste@common-lisp.net) has joined #swhack
19:35:15 <[bjoern]> "Internet Archaeologists Find Ruins Of 'Friendster' Civilization"
19:41:39 <jessica> bjoern: you found The Onion.
19:41:42 <jessica> Check out http://tinyurl.com/insidious-worm-purchases
19:42:55 <[bjoern]> Well I'm just catching up with the videos, I stopped watching when I became annoyed about their video release schedule.
19:42:59 <jessica> "Hundreds of rambling freestyle raps on YouTube are likely caused by this 2 a.m. worm"
19:43:14 <[bjoern]> Yeah saw that already
19:43:24 <jessica> Also be sure to check out, "Scientists teach gorilla it will die someday."
19:43:35 <jessica> They hope that within ten years, gorillas can be taught to resort to alcoholism.
19:43:47 <[bjoern]> Done that. Started with the latest video.
19:44:08 <[bjoern]> I actually distributed the link to the video, i believe.
19:44:24 <[bjoern]> Not the worm video though, it's a bit obvious
19:44:28 <jessica> I've given up reading all of backscroll when I re-join a channel.
19:44:42 * jessica grins. I find it amusing, mostly because I know people who totally can't believe that this happened to them at 2 a.m.
19:46:36 *** nOgAnOo has quit (Quit: I am king of the multiverse.)
19:48:13 <[bjoern]> Next up is Zombie Reagan Raised From Grave To Lead GOP
19:50:17 <[bjoern]> Newspaper: "Reagan's Rotting Corpse Named RNC Chairman. Reagan: 'Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrgh!'"
19:51:50 <jessica> Bjoern, help me out here.
19:52:03 <jessica> What's the equivalent of Robert's Rules of Order for Germans?
19:52:14 <[bjoern]> .wik Robert's Rules of Order
19:52:14 <phenny> "Robert's Rules of Order is the short title of a book containing rules of order intended to be adopted as a parliamentary authority for use by a deliberative assembly." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert's_Rules_of_Order
19:52:40 <[bjoern]> Thinking...
19:52:48 <jessica> But it is *not* meant for actual parliamentary debate.
19:53:01 <jessica> It is meant for civilian, non-governmental debate, but in a productive manner.
19:53:05 <jessica> It evolved from an army field manual.
19:53:06 <[bjoern]> I do not believe that, if there is any, that it is widely known.
19:54:42 <jessica> I have a moral opposition to the same point being brought up multiple times, meetings that have no apparent agenda whatsoever, debate items that have not been previously submitted for inclusion in the agenda, as well as a general distate for the people known as "dumbasses".
19:55:27 <jessica> I have worked in the business world, in federal and state governments, and in non-profit organisations, including one that was an employee-run co-operative.
19:56:14 <jessica> I dealt with all this very well, largely because my physicians were extremely generous with prescriptions for Xanax (Tafil to you).
19:57:14 *** JibberJim has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
19:58:26 <[bjoern]> I learned not caring after a couple of years of usenet and mailing lists.
20:00:50 <jessica> Oh, I can handle those.
20:01:08 <jessica> But I'm talking about meetings where you're meant to be paying attention yet three people ask the same question in a 45-minute period.
20:01:32 <jessica> (And not a question of opinion. A question based on a fact, such as, "If this is sold, does this go with it?")
20:01:45 *** m4rk (~mark@host86-165-81-128.range86-165.btcentralplus.com) has joined #swhack
20:02:12 <[bjoern]> Not giving a damn is a skill you can apply in those situations with sufficient training.
20:02:26 <jessica> Tafil helps with that issue, however.
20:02:40 <[bjoern]> A sharp stick, does, too.
20:13:39 <jessica> I should take advantage of my country's liberal purchase requirements for tasers, maybe that would help.
20:14:03 <[bjoern]> You'd need remote ones though if I understood you correctly.
20:14:15 <[bjoern]> Perhaps there is a way to trigger battery explosions over the network.
20:15:43 <jessica> indeed, but I shan't be working over the Internet.
20:18:59 *** theresaanna has quit (Quit: theresaanna)
20:22:44 *** theresaanna (~theresasu@63.118.206.3) has joined #swhack
20:30:05 <sbp> http://www.cssquirrel.com/comic/?comic=35
20:31:17 <sbp> cf. http://www.zeldman.com/superfriends/
20:31:37 <[bjoern]> nothing remotely funny there.
20:31:48 <[bjoern]> or interesting. or art.
20:32:08 *** jetx has quit (Quit: Savoir-Faire is everywhere!)
20:32:21 *** jetscreamer (~jetscream@unaffiliated/jetscreamer) has joined #swhack
20:32:52 <Arnia> Nothing Storkish, you mean
20:32:55 <sbp> HTML5 isn't inherently funny?
20:33:32 <[bjoern]> .title http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/7568240/Nicolas-Sarkozy-ordered-French-MI5-to-find-out-who-was-behind-affair-rumours.html
20:33:34 <phenny> [bjoern]: Nicolas Sarkozy 'ordered French MI5 to find out who was behind affair rumours' - Telegraph
20:33:40 <sbp> http://wp1007209.wp014.webpack.hosteurope.de/pfalzstorch/tagesarchiv_bornheim1/tag/1132.jpg
20:33:44 <[bjoern]> I have no idea why you'd thing that.
20:33:44 <Monty> ayes 197
20:34:12 <sbp> daily eggs shot: http://wp1007209.wp014.webpack.hosteurope.de/pfalzstorch/tagesarchiv_bornheim1/tag/1332.jpg
20:34:31 <[bjoern]> warm there apparently
20:34:54 <sbp> http://wp1007209.wp014.webpack.hosteurope.de/pfalzstorch/tagesarchiv_bornheim1/tag/2032.jpg looks like some kind of Gasthaus party going on
20:34:58 *** Gabe has parted #swhack (None)
20:34:58 <[bjoern]> "The first lady's radio interview was designed to counter claims that her husband believed the rumours of infidelity were part of an international conspiracy against France"
20:35:25 <[bjoern]> As I recall, they had that on every (suitable) evening, no?
20:35:58 <sbp> maybe, but presumably they have a different excuse for a party every (suitable) evening if so!
20:37:14 <Arnia> Is it a (suitable) evening or a (suitable) party?
20:37:15 <[bjoern]> "This is not the first time Mr Sarkozy has been criticised for using the police for personal ends; in 2007, when he was interior minister, he ordered a police hunt to retrieve a scooter one of his sons had stolen."
20:37:31 <[bjoern]> Warm, not raining; that's close at least.
20:37:57 <[bjoern]> sbp: possible
20:39:29 <[bjoern]> "Adolf Hitler's book "Mein Kampf" has been banned in Russia"
20:40:00 <[bjoern]> "A chapel built on a mountainside in Germany is turning into a shrine for neo-Nazis after it emerged that it was built with marble and grainte taken from the ruins of Adolf Hitler's luxury retreat."
20:40:01 <Monty> T_T
20:40:36 <[bjoern]> I like how most stories on http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/ involve either Hitler or our Pope.
20:42:30 <[bjoern]> .wik Oriental yeti
20:42:31 <phenny> "'The Oriental Yeti' is a nickname given to an animal that, according to a Daily Telegraph article dated 5 April 2010, was captured by hunters in Sichuan Province in China on April 5, 2010." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oriental_Yeti
20:43:08 <Arnia> Or David Cameron and Michael Caine
20:43:10 <[bjoern]> "A road sign warning of prostitutes is confusing motorists in an Italian town" - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/7547224/Prostitutes-sign-confuses-motorists.html
20:43:15 <Arnia> (together, in bed)
20:44:44 <[bjoern]> phenny, tell jeanniecool http://tinyurl.com/ykqosmu
20:44:44 <phenny> [bjoern]: I'll pass that on when jeanniecool is around.
20:45:42 <jeanniecool> lulz
20:45:42 <phenny> jeanniecool: 20:44Z <[bjoern]> tell jeanniecool http://tinyurl.com/ykqosmu
20:45:48 <jeanniecool> thanks, [bjoern]ski!
20:45:48 <Monty> ugh, Afriyle
20:45:55 <[bjoern]> "Livestock could actually be good for the environment according to a new study that found grazing cows or sheep can cut emissions of a powerful greenhouse gas."
20:46:01 <Arnia> Monty, indeed
20:46:04 <Monty> "New Law Requires Women To Do the chain
20:46:06 <[bjoern]> Always glad to deliver penis-related news to you jeanniecool.
20:46:11 <Arnia> .wik Shadow Culture Minister
20:46:12 <Monty> -webkit-box-shadow: 0 would expect from apps need get started selling a "hurry up twitter for couchdb-lounge
20:46:13 <phenny> "Malcolm Chisholm (born 7 March 1949) is a Scottish Labour Party politician, and a former Scottish Executive minister." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_Chisholm
20:48:18 <[bjoern]> hmm http://www.telegraph.co.uk/fashion/fashionpicturegalleries/7560079/Sean-Connery-hosts-the-Dressed-to-Kilt-celebrity-charity-fashion-show-in-New-York.html?image=13
20:48:48 <[bjoern]> als 14
20:48:51 <[bjoern]> o
20:50:03 <Arnia> .o wa who is the Shadow Culture Minister
20:50:06 <[bjoern]> "France has begun another attempt to prevent the invasion of English words in its language by creating new words to replace common Anglicisms."
20:50:09 <phenny> Couldn't grab results from json stringified precioussss.
20:53:04 <sbp> "Motorists and pedestrians have complained that the sign is 'confusing', saying they don't know if it means to watch out for crossing hookers or if it means prostitutes operate in the area."
20:53:26 <sbp> or both?
20:53:36 <[bjoern]> The intersting thing is that they don't answer that in the article.
20:54:04 *** MaienM is now known as MaienM|Sleep
20:54:27 <sbp> yeah
20:54:33 <sbp> perhaps there is no answer
20:55:23 <sbp> I like how the iPhone covers uses I hadn't even thought for it yet
20:55:33 <sbp> this morning for example I wanted to take a tally
20:55:46 <sbp> so I thought, rather than old school paper, I wonder if there's an app for it?
20:55:50 <sbp> of course there was, with good UI and so on
20:56:03 <sbp> the other day, more impressively, I was wondering how close the earth is to Saturn
20:56:08 <sbp> "I need an orrery!"
20:56:16 <sbp> so I thought hey, maybe there's an orrery app
20:56:28 <sbp> and yep, there is. (the earth is very close to Saturn)
20:56:46 <[bjoern]> .o wa mean distance between earth and saturn
20:56:51 <phenny> Saturn->distance from Earth;8.553 AU (astronomical units);1.28x10^9 km (kilometers);1.28x10^12 meters;795.1 million miles; ~~ ( 0.22 ~~ 1/5 ) x mean Pluto-Sun distance ( 5.906376272x10^12 m ); ~~ 8.6 x mean Earth-Sun distance (~~ 1 AU );Solar radiation pressure from P = L_(.)/(c4pir^2):, ->0.062 microPa (micropascals);current distance from Earth
20:57:57 <sbp> see, Wolfram|Alpha cuts off at "current distance from Earth"
20:58:01 <sbp> but my orrery app doesn't
20:58:23 *** panni__ (hannes@ip-95-222-52-93.unitymediagroup.de) has joined #swhack
20:59:51 <archels> children’s school
20:59:59 <archels> nice @ voteforpolicies.co.uk
21:00:44 *** theresaanna has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
21:00:44 *** panni_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
21:01:36 <sbp> great design: http://www.mica.edu/
21:03:07 <[bjoern]> I can understand that you like it.
21:04:56 *** hannes__ has quit (Quit: Verlassend)
21:06:45 <archels> oh dear, I'm a conservative
21:07:00 *** libby (~libby@92.40.112.194.sub.mbb.three.co.uk) has joined #swhack
21:07:14 <[bjoern]> You are a term without meaning?
21:07:50 <archels> see above
21:08:46 <[bjoern]> An Electoral Compass i suppose?
21:08:54 <archels> yup
21:09:40 * archels off
21:11:02 *** MacTed has quit ()
21:12:21 <[bjoern]> So I am on the first page for "crime". They are all nuts.
21:12:22 *** JibberJim (~jim@81-86-174-182.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #swhack
21:14:41 <[bjoern]> No seriously, I read through it again, completely bonkers.
21:21:31 *** libby has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
21:22:32 *** libby (~libby@92.40.159.22.sub.mbb.three.co.uk) has joined #swhack
21:24:55 <Arnia> Huh... I'm a green apparently
21:25:14 <Arnia> I actually chose a UKIP policy for one of them
21:25:23 <[bjoern]> Now on Education. Not seeing any acceptable choice there either.
21:25:32 <Arnia> I chose the UKIP option there
21:26:39 <[bjoern]> It doesn't actually say which party each option belongs to, does it?
21:26:57 *** libby_ (~libby@92.40.159.198.sub.mbb.three.co.uk) has joined #swhack
21:27:00 <[bjoern]> (I guess you have a better insight into individual party's positions than I do)
21:27:11 <sbp> .g electoral compass
21:27:12 <phenny> sbp: http://www.electoralcompass.com/
21:27:21 *** libby has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
21:27:21 *** libby_ is now known as libby
21:36:19 <sbp> doing this
21:36:28 <sbp> http://voteforpolicies.org.uk/survey
21:37:35 <Arnia> I find it amusing that I agree with the Greens on most things except the environment
21:38:25 <sbp> heh!
21:38:34 <sbp> also I should have ticked all boxes
21:38:36 <sbp> this is going to take ages
21:38:55 <[bjoern]> I am rather distraught with the options available, but apparently I am green too.
21:39:15 <[bjoern]> Not sure why they even bothered to put the BNP up there.
21:39:27 <[bjoern]> Our electoral compass is a lot simpler btw.
21:40:37 <Arnia> We have lots of single- or few-issue parties
21:40:51 <Arnia> and with a hung parliament possible, they all suddenly become a lot more important
21:41:04 <[bjoern]> You have a lot of parties who'd likely be illegal in germany, was my impression.
21:42:42 <Arnia> good grief... can you imagine the BNP getting seats?
21:43:04 <[bjoern]> Don't you have polls for that?
21:43:19 <Arnia> yes
21:43:34 <Arnia> Polling is a wonderful way to ensure that the wrong sort don't get elected
21:43:46 * Arnia has spent too long as a returning officer... is jaded and cynical
21:44:06 <[bjoern]> ~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_in_the_United_Kingdom_general_election,_2010
21:44:10 <sbp> there are some really bonkers policies here
21:44:19 <[bjoern]> I said that already sbp
21:45:26 <[bjoern]> I note how my "oh god, let's just click something and get on" style did not result in a single Labour vote. I am unsure what to make of that.
21:46:02 <sbp> I'm worried that my results are going to be like 70% UKIP 20% Conservative 10% Labour
21:46:02 *** libby_ (~libby@92.40.163.226.sub.mbb.three.co.uk) has joined #swhack
21:46:03 <Monty> Speak of the devil, it's libby_!
21:46:23 <Arnia> I'm still a bit upset I got a single UKIP
21:46:31 * [bjoern] didn't have any UKIP either
21:46:38 <sbp> also recognise some of these policies, so...
21:46:45 <Arnia> I'm surprised I didn't get a tory policy
21:47:04 <[bjoern]> You didn't do all topics though
21:47:10 <Arnia> true
21:47:22 <Arnia> I don't care about crime that much
21:47:44 *** libby has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
21:47:49 <Arnia> And whilst I care about healthcare, I don't think the parties are particularly well differentiated there
21:48:09 *** libby (~libby@92.40.42.114.sub.mbb.three.co.uk) has joined #swhack
21:48:22 <Arnia> 'NHS costs a lot of money, but is remarkably efficient and we'd get slaughtered in the polls if we suggested removing it'
21:48:32 * libby waves at sbp - gutting about william isn't it :-(
21:49:52 <[bjoern]> I take it from the polls that BNP is at 3-4%. I suppose you need 5% or something?
21:51:15 *** libby_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
21:51:19 <Arnia> 5%?
21:51:32 <Arnia> You need 5% in any constituency to keep your deposit
21:51:40 <[bjoern]> Well I have no idea what kind of electoral system is in use over there.
21:51:42 <Arnia> but that's different from a nationwide thing
21:51:45 <Arnia> FPTP
21:51:51 <Arnia> .wik First Past the Post
21:51:52 <phenny> "The plurality voting system is a single-winner voting system often used to elect executive officers or to elect members of a legislative assembly which is based on single-member constituencies." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Past_the_Post
21:52:13 <[bjoern]> .wik FPTP
21:52:13 <phenny> "First past the post voting is a generic term referring to an election determined by the highest polling candidate(s)." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FPTP
21:54:30 <Arnia> I actually prefer it to AV or STV
21:54:45 <Arnia> well, definitely to STV
21:54:51 <Arnia> AV isn't so bad
21:55:18 <Arnia> I've run or helped run 80 odd AV elections in my life
21:55:22 <sbp> libby: very much so
21:55:37 <sbp> libby: I've archived as much of his data as I could get my hands on
21:55:44 <sbp> over 100 MB so far collected
21:55:51 <libby> I couldn;t believe it, which was stupid, but he really looked like he would go on forever
21:56:03 <libby> danbri said you were, that's very cool (what a lot!)
21:56:09 <Arnia> sbp said exactly the same thing :)
21:56:15 <sbp> well he was impervious to heart attacks, car crashes, cancer, falls, etc.
21:56:32 <sbp> so it did seem like he'd just rock on into his hundreds
21:56:39 <sbp> and he was actually getting more fit lately, and losing weight
21:56:47 <[bjoern]> Half our parliament is elected by fptp, the other half by way of party lists in each state, so you vote (a) for a person and (b) for a party.
21:56:53 <sbp> learning a new language, actually seemed to be having a mental renaissance
21:57:22 <libby> he was living in madrid right? or did I misunderstand?
21:57:44 <sbp> yeah, he moved to Spain
21:57:48 <libby> amazing
21:58:11 <sbp> I love him so much. I can't believe it's happened
21:58:17 <sbp> I want to email him to ask what's going on
21:58:21 <libby> really glad we went to see him in the US, though hat was 18 months ago now
21:58:27 <[bjoern]> a party then needs 5% nationwide for it to get seats in parliament not won through the fptp votes.
21:58:36 <sbp> yeah, I think danbri saw him last year too
21:58:52 <sbp> I emailed him a fair amount this year... I'm never very good at email
21:58:52 <Arnia> [bjoern]: I'd like to abolish parties personally :)
21:58:55 <[bjoern]> (with a special rule if you win 3 fptp seats, but that has been used only once)
21:58:55 * libby gonna drop offline as I'm on the train - thanks for all you are doing sbp - wish I could think of something useful to do
21:58:57 <sbp> but he started a new website with me
21:59:04 <sbp> see ya libby!
21:59:06 <libby> aw
21:59:12 <libby> talk to you soon
21:59:17 <Arnia> http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs433.snc3/24958_578635265140_200900923_34600501_723812_n.jpg
21:59:17 <libby> I miss him too
21:59:31 <libby> wish I'd talked with him more recently
21:59:34 <libby> l8rs...
21:59:41 <[bjoern]> lots of scary pix on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_German_federal_election
22:00:39 <Arnia> [bjoern]: and here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_2010
22:00:58 <[bjoern]> less scary
22:01:12 <[bjoern]> also less pix
22:04:11 *** libby has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
22:13:42 <sbp> all of the Europe policies were bizarre
22:13:57 <sbp> all of the Health policies looked good at first then worse the more I thought about them
22:15:38 <sbp> very slowly loading the results
22:15:53 <sbp> um, ouch
22:17:03 <sbp> 3/9 Lib Dem, 3/9 Green, 2/9 Labour, 1/9 BNP
22:17:15 <Arnia> ooh... that's worse than mine...
22:17:20 <sbp> yep
22:17:25 <sbp> BNP was Environment
22:17:43 <Arnia> !
22:17:47 <sbp> which is. well, that's just plain weird
22:18:39 <Arnia> It could be that our perception of the parties is out-dated
22:18:51 <sbp> Crime - Labour, Democracy - Green, Economy - Lib Dem, Education - Lib Dem, Environment - BNP, Europe - Labour, Health - Lib Dem, Immigration - Green, Welfare - Green
22:19:25 <sbp> I had trouble on the last two deciding between what I assume are the Green and the Lib Dem positions. the Lib Dem positions were essentially a little less good but a little more realistic, so I went with the Green ones anyway because of, like, idealism
22:20:22 <sbp> I'm fully prepared to believe that the BNP have more or less sensible policies about the Environment. they are essentially extremely brutal, and being brutal about protecting the environment is a good thing. just not so good with, you know, all the other stuff...
22:20:49 <Arnia> heh, the only one I agree with you on is welfare
22:21:02 <sbp> oh, you went for the hippie crap too on Welfare?
22:21:17 <Arnia> yep
22:21:31 <jsled> Arnia: why do you prefer FPTP to STV?
22:21:51 <Arnia> jsled: constituency system and lack of a 'flip a coin' option
22:22:04 <sbp> it's a shame we can't vote for particular parties to control particular policy areas
22:22:06 <Arnia> also, STV is extremely easy in practice to fuck up
22:22:22 <sbp> it would be hilarious if people turned out en masse to vote for BNP only on environment
22:22:39 <Arnia> because it is so sensitive to small changes in turn out, you can easily influence the elections
22:22:56 <Arnia> I've had a few elections nearly come off the rails because of that
22:23:03 <Arnia> (which makes me suspicious of it)
22:23:13 <Arnia> I've also had one election end in a tie
22:23:20 <Arnia> at which point I had to flip a coin
22:23:37 <sbp> should have had a widdling competition
22:23:44 <Arnia> and the loser (and their supporters) never accept the result
22:24:07 <Arnia> so you end up with (notionally) 50% of the electorate feeling disenfranchised
22:24:16 <Arnia> sbp: it is in the rules that it has to be a coin flip
22:24:29 <Arnia> (yay the Electoral Reform Society)
22:24:45 <sbp> the widdle is not a recognised variant of coin flip?
22:24:50 <Arnia> nope
22:24:58 <sbp> what is this country coming to
22:25:27 <sbp> the BNP are saving the environment and we're all banned from widdling contests
22:25:35 <Arnia> suggest an amendment to the STV rules to the ERS
22:26:08 <sbp> they'd only amend my amendment
22:26:18 <Arnia> and then ask if there are any amendments...
22:27:11 <Arnia> jsled: I realise my position is not the one usually trotted out, but going by my experience STV is an awful system for parliamentary representation
22:29:35 <Arnia> (also, it is a horrible system to count which increases the opportunities for people calling foul)
22:29:54 <jsled> Arnia: the city next door was one of the only ones in the states to use IRV/STV for mayoral election. The citizens voted to stop using it last month after a 4th-round runoff that left a number of people upset for some reason. I did some amount of arguing in support of IRV, there, so I was curious. Of course, that's not parliamentary representation
22:30:14 <Arnia> we normally did ours electronically, but a couple of times the electronic system failed and we had to switch to a paper count
22:30:37 <Arnia> it took forever, and we had to do it twice to make sure that everyone was confident in the result
22:30:50 <jsled> the paper count was problematic because of the attention due to each ballot in later rounds?
22:31:17 <Arnia> well, you have to redistribute all the papers after each round
22:31:39 <Arnia> which is tricky even with only a couple of hundred votes
22:31:42 *** m4rk has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
22:31:47 <Arnia> imagine it with 12 000
22:31:52 <jsled> all of the last-place papers, anyways.
22:32:07 <Arnia> Yes, but it is still error prone
22:32:12 * jsled nods
22:32:54 <Arnia> Ultimately, the real point of an electoral system isn't to choose the most popular candidate
22:33:15 <Arnia> It is to ensure that everyone is SURE the most popular candidate was chosen
22:33:25 <Arnia> the difference is important
22:33:58 <Arnia> STV seems fairer at first blush, but in an ideal world
22:34:18 <Arnia> In the real world it seems peculiarly liable to gaming and ill-will
22:35:05 <Arnia> and frankly, if you spend all your time bickering over whether you deserved to run the country, you have less time to actually run the country
22:35:35 <sbp> nsh: ping
22:35:36 <Monty> With task completion, Flickr can I want to explain what
22:37:41 <Arnia> jsled: sorry for the lecture :)
22:37:42 <sbp> phenny: tell nsh <type 'exceptions.SyntaxError'>: invalid syntax (pesterMP.py, line 127)
22:37:43 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when nsh is around.
22:37:52 <sbp> phenny: tell nsh seems to have been broken for 12 hours or so now
22:37:53 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when nsh is around.
22:37:56 <jsled> Arnia: np. I did ask. :)
22:38:09 <Arnia> jsled: It is one of the policy points that puts me off the LibDems most
22:38:28 <Arnia> jsled: that and their (in my opinion) stupid position on the House of Lords
22:41:54 <[bjoern]> .title http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0408/uk-troops-trained-firing-replica-mosques/
22:41:54 <phenny> [bjoern]: UK troops trained by firing at ‘replica mosques’ | Raw Story
22:41:57 <Arnia> actually, if you put all their reform ideas (no monarchy, elected upper house, committee reforms, STV, etc.) together you'd end up with a system that was either in permanent deadlock or a dictatorship with little in between
22:42:12 <Arnia> Personally, I think this is a bad idea
22:43:11 <[bjoern]> "Vice Admiral William McRaven -- the commander of Joint Special Operations Command -- showed up with two sheep, and in the cultural understanding of the region, surrendered himself." - http://abcnews.go.com/WN/Afghanistan/special-forces-apologize-afghan-civilian-deaths-sheep/story?id=10320603
22:43:32 <Arnia> still, they're arguing from the position of the third party... this means they can be as outlandish and popularist with their policies as they like
22:44:32 <[bjoern]> Especially because people lack this ... thing that let's them ... relive past events in their minds.
22:45:40 <sbp> .title http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8609885.stm
22:45:42 <phenny> sbp: BBC News - Hewlett Packard outlines computer memory of the future
22:45:43 <sbp> (memristors)
22:45:48 <Arnia> Memory? Yeah... the failure of memory is a big problem with political systems and their stability
22:45:51 <sbp> memory and processors
22:46:01 <Arnia> sbp: yeah... well, they've been building up to this for ages
22:46:13 <Arnia> Oddly I was looking up memristors the other day for an idea I had
22:46:31 <sbp> phenny: tell Morbus http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8609192.stm
22:46:31 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when Morbus is around.
22:46:39 <sbp> .title
22:46:41 <phenny> sbp: BBC News - South African fossils could be new hominid species
22:47:17 <sbp> http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/47607000/gif/_47607270_expenditure466x299.gif
22:47:53 <[bjoern]> That explains obesity.
22:48:23 <[bjoern]> "I called my dad over and about five metres away he started swearing, and I was like 'what did I do wrong?' and he's like, 'nothing, nothing - you found a hominid' "
22:48:43 <sbp> voters for and against debill: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200910/cmhansrd/cm100407/debtext/100407-0032.htm#1004088001556
22:49:04 <[bjoern]> Anyone not already on our shitlist?
22:49:51 <sbp> not as far as I can tell
22:49:56 <sbp> some interesting omissions
22:50:59 <sbp> Mark Todd MP voted for the noes, to clear up that loose end
22:52:41 <Arnia> McTaggart didn't vote at all
22:52:45 <sbp> Rory Cellan-Jones (BBC) speaks of "promises that there would be an effect at the ballot box, with rebels rewarded and supporters punished. We shall see whether the digital crowd makes a difference." — http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/rorycellanjones/2010/04/debill_v_ge2010.html
22:52:49 <sbp> she didn't vote? wow
22:52:54 <sbp> I didn't notice her name missing
22:54:22 <sbp> oh, there was one positive tweet:
22:54:24 <sbp> —
22:54:24 <sbp> Combing through Twitter, I found only one apparent supporter of the bill: "Am I missing something regarding the #debill, or are people complaining that they might get punished for breaking the law?"
22:54:25 <sbp> —
22:54:28 <sbp> one
22:54:56 <sbp> pretty strange comment too since this bill introduces new law...
22:54:57 <Arnia> Ian Paisley is rh?
22:55:20 <Arnia> (he voted with the noes
22:55:21 <Arnia> )
22:56:07 <sbp> saw that, don't know why he's Right Hon.
22:56:08 <Arnia> Diane Abbott again with the disagreeing with the government
22:56:27 <Arnia> I'm surprised she hasn't been deselected by now... she seems to defy nearly every interesting whip
22:56:35 <sbp> oh, he's in the PC
22:56:37 <sbp> simple as that
22:56:39 <Arnia> She's either whiter than white, or utterly terrifying
22:56:50 <Arnia> sbp: well that's what Right Honourable means
22:56:57 <Arnia> sbp: the question is WHY he's in the PC
22:57:01 <sbp> nah, you can get it for other things
22:57:05 <sbp> e.g. being in the NI PC :-)
22:57:06 <Arnia> Really?
22:57:22 <Arnia> Northern Ireland have their own PC?
22:57:25 <Arnia> Didn't know that
22:57:28 <sbp> abolished in 1972
22:57:42 <sbp> dunno if members are still styled Rt. Hon., guess not
22:57:45 <sbp> only seven still alive
22:58:12 <sbp> few others... mayors, barons, etc.
22:58:34 <sbp> I was wondering if some NI rôle he has merited it
23:01:14 <sbp> R.C.J. again: "So, does that mean the mainstream media, with its concentration on campaign news, is ignoring the really big story? Or is this a particularly well-focussed campaign by a relatively small group of activists?"
23:01:54 <sbp> .title http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/world_news_america/8601207.stm
23:01:57 <phenny> sbp: BBC News - World News America - Why do Finland's schools get the best results?
23:03:11 <sbp> .title http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8609547.stm
23:03:13 <phenny> sbp: BBC News - A curious thing called Cillit Bang
23:05:35 <Arnia> sbp: part of the Good Friday Agreement?
23:05:58 <[bjoern]> Your http://www.publications.parliament.uk above is still loading...
23:06:21 <[bjoern]> Whoa and code is bad
23:07:01 <sbp> "It became dormant in 1972 when the Parliament of Northern Ireland was suspended and its powers were transferred to the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, a member of the British Cabinet."
23:07:06 <sbp> apparently it's dormant and suspended
23:07:14 <sbp> so I presume its members can still be styled Rt. Hon.
23:07:50 <[bjoern]> .o twitter wikileaks
23:07:53 <phenny> <@wikileaks> Right wingers should know we originated Climate Gate, ACORN censorship and docs on Tony Rezko/Blagoyevich corruption. (http://twitter.com/wikileaks/statuses/11847608229)
23:08:02 <[bjoern]> Ah http://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/11826962453
23:08:16 <sbp> .title http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/england/8609114.stm
23:08:18 <phenny> sbp: BBC News - David Cameron says forgetting name of Stroud is a gaffe
23:16:54 <Arnia> Not as bad as Agifyie (really don't know how to spell his name) continually misnaming constituencies and getting basic geography wrong
23:17:06 <Arnia> Actually, it was rather Lyonaise
23:24:38 *** theresaanna (~theresasu@71.167.166.46) has joined #swhack
23:27:59 <Arnia> theresaanna: are you Lyonnaise?
23:28:28 <theresaanna> ...like the potatoes?
23:29:21 <Arnia> More in terms of cartography
23:29:30 * theresaanna googles
23:29:44 <theresaanna> ah!
23:29:46 <theresaanna> no, I am not
23:30:13 <theresaanna> why do you ask?
23:30:17 <Arnia> you're someone who knows their Penriths from their Penarths?
23:30:39 <theresaanna> no, I do not.
23:31:37 * theresaanna is american. which might explain everything.
23:32:28 <Arnia> ah, you're from The Other Country
23:33:40 <theresaanna> indeed, and I ask forgiveness for my ignorance many transatlantic places
23:33:46 <theresaanna> ignorance *of
23:34:00 <Arnia> 'tis note'd
23:42:07 * Arnia seriously considers the world to be doomed