00:16:01 <nsh> sbp, not broken, just not in use as far as i can tell
00:16:01 <Monty> funny comments while db file and flash drive replica of thing with you jeanniecool.
00:16:01 <phenny> nsh: 08 Apr 22:37Z <sbp> tell nsh <type 'exceptions.SyntaxError'>: invalid syntax (pesterMP.py, line 127)
00:16:03 <phenny> nsh: 08 Apr 22:37Z <sbp> tell nsh seems to have been broken for 12 hours or so now
00:16:15 <nsh> going to implement sending to arbitrary twitter lists
00:16:38 <nsh> though stretching the premise at this point a bit
00:17:20 <Arnia> PesterArbitraryList
00:18:59 <nsh> twitter isn't really a push medium
00:23:47 <Arnia> nslater: notes sync
00:23:54 <Arnia> nslater: http://9to5mac.com/iPhone-4-screenshots-430963594
00:46:50 <[bjoern]> usr nsh hai.
00:47:07 <nsh> whup
00:47:22 <[bjoern]> not ur busness
00:47:56 <nsh> okeis
00:48:14 <[bjoern]> mostly busy not doing things.
00:50:34 <nsh> that is good
01:05:47 <jeanniecool> wtf, Monty?
01:05:52 <Monty> democracy. fun ads, which take some people who sometimes seemed almost used only 2% of that.
01:06:10 <[bjoern]> He is not mistaken about that.
01:09:52 * kpreid blinks
01:09:53 <phenny> kpreid: 08 Apr 10:08Z <sbp> tell kpreid http://www.evilmadscientist.com/article.php/atomiccookies
01:10:07 <kpreid> phenny: tell sbp seen it, I'm one of the anonymous commenters
01:10:07 <phenny> kpreid: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
01:10:14 <kpreid> soooo....
01:10:37 <[bjoern]> Lies, I authored the anonymous comments.
01:10:45 <kpreid> previously on the iphone coverage here: “ First, we’re adding an indicator to the status bar if something is tracking your location. ”
01:10:58 <kpreid> so I'm thinkin: hm, more cryptic little icons on your status bar
01:11:11 <kpreid> (I dunno, I don't know exactly what's on an iphone status bar)
01:11:12 <[bjoern]> Windows users are used to that.
01:11:16 <kpreid> and, what can you do with this?
01:11:21 <kpreid> so I'm thinking:
01:11:35 <kpreid> make it so that you can: grab the bottom edge of the status bar
01:11:39 <kpreid> and you stretch it out
01:11:48 <[bjoern]> Like goatse.
01:11:56 <kpreid> and the icons move vertically, aranged diagonally
01:12:06 <kpreid> and they get little labels fading in beside them for what each one is and means now
01:12:13 <kpreid> and that would be very fancy
01:12:22 <kpreid> I'm not sure if it's actually a good idea though.
01:12:32 <kpreid> but now I want to see it done.
01:12:56 <kpreid> and if you drag it out and let go it goes "sproing!" back and the icons ripple along as they settle down.
01:13:48 <[bjoern]> You could post to an iPhone web forum and point out how the iPhone sucks because it doesn't have this.
01:14:15 <jsled> oh, that would be nice. the android status bar does slide down for the left-hand side app notifications details … but there's one or two infrequent RHS icons that weren't obvious, and even the obvious ones could be more detailed, in the way you mention.
01:15:01 <kpreid> someone hand me a time machine so I can implement this in javascript in the next outside 15 minutes.
01:16:23 <kpreid> one of the hairy bits is that the space available to your extended-explanation is broken into two parts and varies depending on where the original icon is in the bar
01:16:47 <kpreid> the more practical way would be to put the labels reading sideways and you just turn the phone to read them
01:17:14 <kpreid> but that wouldn't look nearly as cool
01:20:22 <kpreid> bah, I'll do it anyway
01:20:38 <kpreid> I should try using jQuery for something anyway, and it's supposed to have animation support stuff, right?
01:21:40 <kpreid> .u ⚗
01:21:40 <phenny> U+2697 ALEMBIC (⚗)
01:22:37 <jsled> some, yes.
01:23:25 <nsh> phenny, tell sbp @JamesPlaskittMP tweeted me saying he I voted for some of the ammendments for more consultation to the Bill, but not for a 3rd reading. It needs more scrutiny
01:23:25 <phenny> nsh: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
01:23:40 <jsled> simple ones in base jquery: "fade", "slide". http://api.jquery.com/category/effects/
01:24:04 <nsh> pester success level +1
01:24:57 <jsled> plus the general effect framework. jquery-ui has a number of pre-defined transitions. http://jqueryui.com/docs/effect/
01:28:49 * Arnia wonders about a 'notification ticker'
01:29:31 <Arnia> rather than a vertical list, which could grow quite large, instead you have a horizontal badged list of notification messages
01:30:25 <Arnia> since you're limited to two options with notifications anyway, and one is 'close', this wouldn't require a change to the API. You'd just tap on the notification to say 'accept'
01:30:36 <Arnia> (whatever that means for that particular notification)
01:35:42 <kpreid> Arnia: how would you express close?
01:35:58 <Arnia> Tap elsewhere to close the notification ticker
01:36:03 <Arnia> like popups on the iPad
01:36:18 <kpreid> Elsewhere on screen? That seems a bit "oops, I dismissed the thing that just popped up"
01:36:27 <Arnia> that's what you're doing
01:36:40 <Arnia> you're closing the ticker of recent events
01:37:00 <kpreid> oh, hm, I was imagining something less modal
01:37:07 <Arnia> how is that modal?
01:37:17 <Arnia> it is no more modal than the double height status bar
01:37:19 <kpreid> you can't ignore it
01:37:35 <kpreid> without losing the information in it.
01:37:36 <Arnia> it is in fact just a form of double height status bar
01:37:41 <Arnia> ?
01:37:50 <Arnia> I'm confused
01:37:52 <kpreid> You said that tapping elsewhere on the screen would close the notifications.
01:38:00 <kpreid> I assume that means you can't get them back.
01:38:04 <Arnia> No...
01:38:05 <Arnia> the
01:38:13 <Arnia> the ticker would show the recent events
01:38:16 <Arnia> badged
01:38:30 <kpreid> I don't know what you mean by "badged"
01:38:56 <Arnia> Ok, ;with an icon'
01:39:07 <Arnia> hm... my typing is really off today
01:39:36 <Arnia> Anyway, when you accept a notification it vanishes from the ticker, otherwise it hangs around for a while and then disappears
01:39:42 <Arnia> sort of like how voicemail works
01:40:13 <Arnia> you open and close the ticker by clicking an icon in the status
01:40:18 <Arnia> or maybe a gesture
01:40:52 <kpreid> OK, I see. so it's not an accept/dismiss but just a recent list
01:41:03 <Arnia> Yes... completely the opposite of modal :)
01:41:37 <Arnia> scroll back and forth by sliding left and right
01:41:53 <Arnia> possibly drag notifications off the ticker to explicitly dismiss them
01:41:59 <Arnia> but I don't think that's essential
01:42:15 <Arnia> just have them expire after a time
01:43:18 <jsled> man. nearly every available scent here is so inappropriate.
01:43:19 <jsled> .title http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=38218595
01:43:20 <phenny> jsled: Mature Twilight Twatlight Vagina Soap by Soapyho on Etsy
02:05:17 <kpreid> Okay, I've done the easy part. I now have a stretchy squiggly statusbar.
02:19:17 <[bjoern]> pervert.
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02:30:10 <[bjoern]> "I really have no response. Because last I checked, Sarah Palin's not much of an expert on nuclear issues" You don't say.
02:30:53 <[bjoern]> "In an appearance Wednesday on Fox News, Palin compared Obama to a kid in a playground who is asking for a punch in the face."
02:34:00 <jsled> link?
02:34:19 <[bjoern]> http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/exclusive-president-obama-slaps-sarah-palin-expert-nukes/story?id=10321775
02:34:30 <[bjoern]> .news "In an appearance Wednesday on Fox News, Palin compared Obama"
02:34:31 <phenny> [bjoern]: no results
02:34:34 <[bjoern]> .g "In an appearance Wednesday on Fox News, Palin compared Obama"
02:34:34 <phenny> [bjoern]: No results found for '"In an appearance Wednesday on Fox News, Palin compared Obama"'.
02:34:44 <[bjoern]> Pityful.
02:35:02 <[bjoern]> Actually I get it using the web interface.
02:35:09 <[bjoern]> Only for web search though
02:37:05 <Arnia> kpreid: still there?
02:37:09 <kpreid> Yup.
02:37:11 <kpreid> Workin'
02:37:17 <kpreid> Almost done with the prototype
02:37:18 <Arnia> kpreid: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/983394/iphone-notifications-tray.png
02:37:25 <Arnia> I'm seeing something like that
02:37:37 * kpreid nods
02:37:53 <Arnia> (sorry for how rough that is)
02:37:54 <kpreid> I was thinking of it on the bottom, but that's probably because I'm thinking of webOS
02:41:45 <Arnia> yeah...
02:42:00 <Arnia> I am just ill-disposed towards long drop down menus :)
02:42:21 <Arnia> especially when the content is of arbitrary length and the screen display is of limited size
02:42:46 <Arnia> it seems barely better than conventional modals in that regard to have a big drop down like Android does
02:44:36 <Arnia> I'm not a big fan of Android's UI in a lot of places though
02:44:48 <Arnia> it seems... rough
02:45:27 <Arnia> Not that the iPhone UI is perfect (notifications have been a bugbear of mine for a while for example) but it does feel more trustworthy
02:45:40 <Arnia> Android always comes across as a bit rough and flimsy
02:47:09 <Arnia> I quite like some bits of WebOS... it feels less flimsy than Android. I do think they're a little overzealous with the rounded corners
02:47:32 <Arnia> and the interaction support doesn't feel as nice
02:47:42 <Arnia> (as Android)
02:57:00 * Arnia is interested in your mockup too
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02:57:32 <kpreid> Working on publishign
02:57:41 <Arnia> dropbox?
02:57:50 <kpreid> Naw, I want to do it right and proper :)
02:57:53 <Arnia> (if you have it)
02:58:02 <kpreid> also, jquery deps and so on
02:59:08 <Arnia> yeah, although sbp managed to publish things with dependencies there
02:59:34 <Arnia> I've just realised that using the dropbox iphone app I can see my mockup as if it were an actual screen
02:59:59 <Arnia> as such I've realised that the affordances are too small for scrolling
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03:08:35 <Arnia> [[[
03:08:42 <Arnia> Yeah, #epicFail is soooo last decade.
03:08:42 <Arnia> I prefer #fractalFail (a fail at every level of resolution) or #quantumFail (when you look really hard at it is fails in a very different and surprising way).
03:08:42 <Arnia> #superstringFail doesn't work though, because it's just hypothetical.
03:08:55 <Arnia> ]]] — http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/apr/04/epic-fail?showallcomments=true#CommentKey:b2758838-1b59-4b21-9a80-0575552aad00
03:09:53 <[bjoern]> Desperate attempt at humor.
03:10:08 <kpreid> Arnia: http://switchb.org/kpreid/2010/stretchy-status-bar/
03:10:35 <kpreid> Doesn't work in my Firefox, dunno why. I assume you use Safari :)
03:10:58 <Arnia> Yeah, Safari and Chrome
03:11:07 <[bjoern]> Works in Opera, but the user interface is not very mouse friendly
03:11:14 <Arnia> I like the alchemy enabled
03:11:27 <kpreid> I was browsing the available dingbats and...:)
03:11:34 <Arnia> I'm not convinced though
03:11:39 <[bjoern]> well "works", I am not sure exactly what is supposed to happen if you drag the line
03:11:49 <Arnia> it requires too much stretching before they become readable
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03:12:01 <[bjoern]> There is mostly distored text if you drag it
03:12:13 <kpreid> Arnia: Readable if it's stretched to 1/3 of the screen for me.
03:12:31 <kpreid> Hm.
03:12:38 <kpreid> Well, non-overlapping. Not exactly clear.
03:12:58 <Arnia> this not only obscures the content of the current screen, but a slight misregistration of the touch (likely when pulling it that far, particularly on lower quality touchscreens) may cause an unintended interaction with the screen below
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03:13:21 <kpreid> Yes...it would be best if you could grab anywhere on the status bar.
03:13:31 <kpreid> That you can't is just a matter of the libs I grabbed.
03:13:42 <Arnia> well, I didn't mean to start the gesture
03:14:00 <Arnia> The problem with many touchscreens available now is that the digitisers are inaccurate
03:14:13 <Arnia> they're inaccurate in a nonlinear fashion too
03:14:42 <kpreid> afk for a few mins, need to do stuff.
03:15:13 <Arnia> so you could be pulling the bar down and about a third of the way down the screen it suddenly decides you're a few millimetres off the bar and so trigger a touch event for the app
03:15:41 <Arnia> or at the very least the bar could suddenly spring back again
03:15:50 <Arnia> (which would be disorienting and alarming)
03:16:04 <kpreid> Um. If that is a problem then surely *any* dragging-based UI would fail?
03:16:27 <kpreid> anything which has an action on letting go
03:16:35 <Arnia> no, it is the distance you have to travel and the position you are on the target that is the problem here
03:17:08 <kpreid> I don't see how the touch position moving 'off' the bar is a problem, it just catches up -- or is there an identity problem with that?
03:17:12 <Arnia> you'll inevitably be only a few pixels from the edge of the target (because it starts off as a narrow status bar) and then you have to keep within those few pixels accuracy all the way down the screen
03:17:34 <kpreid> Huh?
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03:17:57 <Arnia> ok... you touch the bar right? you then drag down
03:18:05 <Arnia> where is your finger in relation to the bar?
03:18:24 <kpreid> The bottom of the bar is fixed to the moving touch position until you let go.
03:18:39 <Arnia> how close are you to the edge of the target then?
03:18:46 <kpreid> Target?
03:19:00 <Arnia> yes, the status bar which will receive the touch event
03:19:16 <kpreid> Why does it matter?
03:19:49 <kpreid> Assuming the initial touch is properly detected as on the bar, why is there any ambiguity at all about the rest of the process?
03:20:12 <Arnia> The OS has to calculate identity for movements
03:20:28 <kpreid> OK, and it fails to do that sometimes?
03:20:28 <Arnia> All it gets are a list of positions touched
03:20:39 <kpreid> Right, that's what the sensor necessarily produces.
03:20:43 <kpreid> I understand the identity problem.
03:20:45 <Arnia> It can do when the screen is of poor quality
03:20:50 <Arnia> and most are of poor quality
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03:21:07 <Arnia> Apple's are the best, but they're still inaccurate at the edges of the screen
03:21:23 <Arnia> (due to how capacitive multitouch works and the industrial design of the unit)
03:21:30 <kpreid> What does positioning inaccuracy matter? If there's one touch it's got a clear identity.
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03:22:05 <Arnia> it greatly harms the 'feel' of the UI if the objects don't behave in a natural fashion
03:22:14 <Arnia> so if they lag behind the dragger, or surge ahead
03:22:33 <kpreid> Sure, but it's going to be equally sloppy no matter *what* you're dragging. Your argument applies equally to dragging anything whatsoever.
03:22:40 <Arnia> No it doesn't
03:23:12 <Arnia> in most cases you drag from near the centre of the thing being dragged. It doesn't matter if it makes a mistake on some points because it can smooth over those
03:23:16 <kpreid> (afk, really. will continue)
03:23:38 <Arnia> it is when you've got small targets being moved a long distance that it becomes an issue
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03:52:42 <kpreid> Arnia: I don't see why smoothing isn't equally possible in this case.
03:52:58 <kpreid> Dragging logic doesn't depend on the shape of the thing dragged vs. the cursor.
03:53:27 <Arnia> dragging logic gets a single point
03:53:40 <Arnia> touch systems get a more smeared representation
03:53:50 <kpreid> Er.
03:53:53 <Arnia> (cos fingers aren't pixel precision)
03:54:06 <kpreid> Of course, but you take the center or whatever smoothed result.
03:54:22 <Arnia> the point is the centre moves around a lot
03:54:28 <kpreid> I understand how a touch/multitouch system has to massage its input. I understand screens are sloppy.
03:54:48 <Arnia> and if it moves so it is no longer over the target, what happens?
03:54:49 <kpreid> I *don't* see how the dragging I'm proposing is *any harder than* the dragging of anything else in a touch ui.
03:55:06 <kpreid> It catches up, of course. The drag stops when the touch stops.
03:55:32 <Arnia> ... wait, I need to go and think of another way to explain this
03:55:40 <Arnia> I feel we've gone in a circle
03:56:30 <kpreid> buy me a capacitive touchscreen device I can sensibly program and I'll learn the trouble for myself :)
03:59:19 <Arnia> Imagine you have a piece of paper on the desk in front of you and you put a finger on it
03:59:39 <Arnia> you drag the piece of paper towards yourself, and it moves with your finger
04:00:04 <Arnia> then suddenly, it stops moving or slows down or speeds up irrespective of your finger
04:00:28 <Arnia> it would be very disconcerting
04:00:59 <kpreid> But UIs contain draggable objects, yes? So adequate solutions *exist*.
04:01:21 <Arnia> they work because of certain perceptual and software tricks
04:01:37 <Arnia> your system will, I think, hit an edge case
04:01:41 <kpreid> right...and these tricks don't apply to this case why?
04:02:04 <Arnia> You're near the edge of the target, so small deviations in the tracking are much more obvious
04:02:12 <kpreid> Hm.
04:02:15 <Arnia> (due to how our visual system is very edge based)
04:02:29 <kpreid> You're saying that because the finger is near the edge, it will *appear* worse.
04:02:32 <kpreid> OK, that's different.
04:02:42 <Arnia> worse, because you'll be dragging this target over a long distance and relatively slowly, you'll have very poor smoothing
04:02:58 <kpreid> I thought you were saying that it would *fail* -- eg snap back spuriously, or cause clicks elsewhere.
04:03:16 <Arnia> you'll hit lots of the distortions caused by sensor position, and there will be lots of data points
04:03:24 <Arnia> the smoothing is only done between data points
04:03:40 <Arnia> so the slower the track, the more obvious the distortions become
04:03:44 <kpreid> right
04:04:10 <kpreid> OK, it's past my bedtime, let's discuss this later if at all... but I think we have reached non-disagreement.
04:04:27 <Arnia> On top of this, the way these systems are implemented, the only way to avoid misregistration of the target (and spurious clicks) would be to code it at a very low level
04:04:40 <Arnia> (below the normal UI level for Android say)
04:04:56 <Arnia> below the event dispatch level
04:05:15 <Arnia> ok, night night
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09:57:16 <sbp> phenny: tell nsh @JamesPlaskittMP voted for the government amendment in the third reading, but did not vote at all to either pass or fail the bill through third reading. see http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200910/cmhansrd/cm100407/debtext/100407-0031.htm and -0032.html for details
09:57:16 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when nsh is around.
09:58:28 <sbp> phenny: tell nsh so I'm not sure what he means about "I voted for some of the amendments", unless he's referring to amendments at an earlier stage too. at least it's true he didn't vote with party on pushing it through, but then he didn't vote against either
09:58:29 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when nsh is around.
09:58:55 <sbp> phenny: tell nsh MPs should have 1 point for a draw and 3 for a win
09:58:56 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when nsh is around.
10:00:51 <sbp> <kpreid> so I'm thinking:
10:00:51 <sbp> <kpreid> make it so that you can: grab the bottom edge of the status bar
10:00:51 <sbp> <kpreid> and you stretch it out
10:00:51 <sbp> <[bjoern]> Like goatse.
10:01:07 <sbp> also there is only one existing icon
10:01:14 <sbp> which is the battery indicator
10:01:18 <Talliesin> How many SEO copywriters does it take to change a lightbulb, light bulb, light, bulb, lamp, bulbs, flowers, flour?
10:01:18 <phenny> Talliesin: 08 Apr 10:08Z <sbp> tell Talliesin http://www.evilmadscientist.com/article.php/atomiccookies
10:01:20 <sbp> hardly information overload so far
10:04:15 <Talliesin> Hmm. Those atomic cookies could work well with Joanna's Danish cookie recipes.
10:20:35 <sbp> Gruber: "It could hardly be more clear if they singled out Flash CS5 by name." — then two paragraphs later — "UPDATE: To be clear, I do not think that Apple is singling out Flash CS5."
10:20:57 <sbp> Gruber could hardly be more clear if he made himself clear
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11:53:43 <sbp> phenny: tell [bjoern] Björk got given a new house by the Icelandic Prime Minsiter http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/uimages/sf/zamaanonline.png — but the rest of Iceland aren't happy about it: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/iceland-balks-at-island-freebie-for-bjork-724765.html
11:53:43 <phenny> sbp: I'll pass that on when [bjoern] is around.
11:54:39 <sbp> http://www.highsnobiety.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/franceso-de-molfetta-new-idols-front.jpg
11:56:26 <sbp> random violence: http://imgur.com/eyngS.gif (title is "How to surprise your wife with a gym ball")
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12:19:48 <archels> Isn't it Björk rather than Bjork?
12:21:42 <sbp> I said Björk and the Independent did not say Björk, which pretty much underlines the fact that it is definitely Björk, yes
12:22:09 * sbp doesn't like the Independent since some really atrocious history journalism he uncovered a year or two ago
12:22:59 <archels> oh yes
12:23:06 * archels has failed to wake up fully
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12:34:16 <[bjoern]> i want one too
12:34:16 <phenny> [bjoern]: 11:53Z <sbp> tell [bjoern] Björk got given a new house by the Icelandic Prime Minsiter http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/uimages/sf/zamaanonline.png — but the rest of Iceland aren't happy about it: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/iceland-balks-at-island-freebie-for-bjork-724765.html
12:34:41 <sbp> you want a Björk?
12:35:01 <[bjoern]> I would take the house too
12:35:08 <sbp> so greedy
12:35:16 <sbp> you'll be wanting food in the house next
12:35:34 <[bjoern]> you could make it an edible house
12:35:50 <sbp> then it wouldn't last very long and you'd need Björk to win you a new one
12:37:24 <[bjoern]> not seeing the problem
12:43:15 <[bjoern]> .title http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,590426,00.html
12:43:15 <phenny> [bjoern]: Fox on Sex: It's a Fact, Sex Makes Us Dumb - Sex | Erectile Dysfunction | Sexual Health - FOXNews.com
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12:54:00 <sbp> 'However, the colloquial notion of "letting one out of the chamber" before going on a date may sound funny, but it’s a good idea.' — FOX News
12:54:12 <sbp> I'd love to see them scrolling that across the ticker at the bottom
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13:07:25 <Monty> But what does ephemerian have to do with the price of fish?
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13:39:35 <Monty> yo ephemerian!
13:50:51 *** [bjoern] changed the topic to: "Sex Logic is dangerous"
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14:01:54 <[bjoern]> .title http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/07/lane-new-16-accuses-mothe_n_529211.html
14:01:55 <phenny> [bjoern]: Lane New, 16, Accuses Mother Of Facebook Harassment
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17:55:58 <[bjoern]> "George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld covered up that hundreds of innocent men were sent to the Guantánamo Bay prison camp because they feared that releasing them would harm the push for war in Iraq and the broader War on Terror, according to a new document obtained by The Times."
17:56:00 <[bjoern]> Lies!
17:57:06 <sbp> it wasn't obtained by the Times?
17:57:14 <[bjoern]> .title http://www.zerodayinitiative.com/advisories/ZDI-10-031/
17:57:16 <phenny> [bjoern]: Zero Day Initiative
17:57:17 <jessica> ... Times of London or of New York?
17:57:25 <sbp> The Times = London
17:57:40 <[bjoern]> co uk co uk co uk uk uk ukuku co.
17:57:41 <jessica> when it involves internal American politics, I have to ask.
17:57:43 <[bjoern]> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article7092435.ece fwiw
17:57:54 <sbp> = London
17:57:58 <[bjoern]> "Apple Webkit Blink Event Dangling Pointer Remote Code Execution Vulnerability" should have been the title
17:58:20 * jessica doesn't know about the Times of London, but basically the New York Times spent their time in an extended ejaculation for the whole of the Obama campaign, and they hated Bush.
17:58:26 <[bjoern]> http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Red-shirts-trying-to-contain-riot-forces-at-Rajpra-30126829.html
17:58:39 *** sbp changed the topic to: "We Discuss Apple Webkit Blink Event Dangling Pointer Remote Code Execution Vulnerabilities"
17:58:42 <jessica> Red shirts? Theyre gonna die.
17:59:34 <sbp> .gcs "distended ejaculation" "extended ejaculation" "extensive ejaculation"
17:59:36 <phenny> "extended ejaculation" (32), "extensive ejaculation" (2), "distended ejaculation" (0)
17:59:39 *** [bjoern] changed the topic to: "We Discuss Apple Webkit Blink Event Dangling Pointer Remote Code Execution Vulnerabilities (And penis. Hai, jeanniecool!)"
18:00:14 <[bjoern]> Well they do send wave after wave of females in the direction of the red shirts, so that's indeed likely.
18:00:17 <sbp> Mozilla = Penis?
18:00:41 <[bjoern]> Firm "no" coming from my direction.
18:00:53 <sbp> firm you say?
18:01:08 <[bjoern]> .title http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/denmark/7571713/Carlsberg-drivers-strike-over-lunchtime-beer-cut.html
18:01:09 <phenny> [bjoern]: Carlsberg drivers strike over 'lunchtime beer' cut - Telegraph
18:02:08 <sbp> jessica: how many teeth do you have?
18:02:39 <[bjoern]> Enough to fataly injure you if you ask too many stupid questions.
18:02:53 <sbp> no, you have to let the lady answer for herself
18:02:57 <sbp> this is for science
18:03:01 <Arnia> jessica: the Times is the Sun with smaller print ans Ms Moran
18:03:07 <Arnia> and
18:03:11 <jessica> sbp: 26.
18:03:15 <sbp> thanks
18:03:21 <sbp> did you just count them yourself?
18:03:39 <jessica> Four third molars extracted, four premolars extracted for orthodontia.
18:03:52 <jessica> No, but I had to figure out if wisdom teeth counted in the normal count of 32.
18:03:58 <[bjoern]> She just assumed 13 is the number of doom, and doubled it.
18:04:06 <sbp> so you subtracted from a known value rather than empirically confirming it
18:04:33 <Arnia> Abrangeous!
18:04:36 <Arnia> -n
18:04:42 <jessica> dude, I know how many teeth have been taken out of my mouth, for Christ's sake.
18:04:42 <Monty> yo Gabe
18:04:53 <sbp> I don't doubt that you know how many have been taken out
18:05:04 <[bjoern]> WILL BE DEPARTING NOW. BACK SOON, MAYBE.
18:05:04 <sbp> what I'm puzzled at is how you know how many you had to begin with
18:05:14 <sbp> MESSAGE OF DEPARTULATIONS TO [BJOERN]
18:06:00 <jessica> why the hell did I just indulge you and count them with my tongue and a finger to confirm that yes, I have 36 teeth?
18:06:03 <jessica> 26.
18:06:04 <jessica> typo.
18:06:15 <sbp> for science! thanks
18:06:49 <Monty> auenf: aye, or other
18:06:51 <sbp> “Aristotle maintained that women have fewer teeth than men; although he was twice married, it never occurred to him to verify this statement by examining his wives' mouths” — Bertrand Russell
18:07:12 <sbp> I was wondering if they'd even let him, and all kinds of other questions
18:07:20 <sbp> many of which you have answered. some new ones have been raised too
18:07:26 <jessica> dude, he also lived in an era when all dental treatment was done by extraction. It's not exactly a great indicator.
18:07:38 <sbp> Aristotle, or Russell?
18:07:43 <jessica> Aristotle.
18:07:59 <sbp> yeah, but you said yourself that you know how many you've had extracted
18:08:11 <sbp> maybe the Aristotelian Wives would have remembered too
18:08:24 <jessica> Also, genetically speaking, thanks to my mother, I have Bad Teeth. They're white enough and they're certainly straight at this point (three fuckin' years of orthodontics) but weak enamel.
18:08:34 <jessica> I've already had two crowned, and undoubtedly there will be more.
18:08:39 <Arnia> Are the Aristotelean wives from Stepford?
18:08:54 * jessica really hates that they modernised the movie.
18:09:02 <jessica> I have a first edition of the book by Ira Levin.
18:09:06 <sbp> science did not need to know that, but gives you those things which people are given in moments like these. I forget the name. oh yeah, symphathies
18:09:38 <Arnia> This was a triumph...
18:09:50 * jessica shrugs.
18:09:58 <sbp> I seriously forgot the name, heh
18:10:09 <jessica> I never go to a Brit for sympathies for dental treatment. They either brag that they get private dental care or they bitch me out for assumptions about British teeth.
18:10:10 <sbp> I was going "empathy? no, that's not the one..."
18:10:18 <sbp> yeah
18:10:47 <sbp> I'm on the NHS but I have to pay anyway
18:10:51 <sbp> which is a bit confusing
18:10:57 <Arnia> US teeth scare me
18:11:03 <sbp> but I have a super good dentist, so doesn't bother me too much
18:11:14 <Arnia> they look like someone has attached a UV lamp to their face
18:11:24 <jessica> Actually, Fark recently had a headline pointing out that Brits have some of the best teeth in the world.
18:11:29 <Arnia> If I had to pay for my doctor I'd be bankrupt
18:11:42 <jessica> They pointed out with lack of access to dentistry, you brush and floss more often so you won't be in pain later.
18:11:45 <jessica> Makes sense to me.
18:12:24 <sbp> we also have those toothbrushes with the plastic thing to clean our tongues of bacteria
18:12:31 <sbp> we are just that futuristic
18:12:38 <sbp> probably we imported them from Japan. I do not know
18:12:46 <sbp> science has not been consulted about this matter
18:12:49 <jessica> The NHS vs. America thing kind of gets me weirded out. An American research librarian looked into tax differentials and pointed out that most of the difference was that Americans privately contract for education and health care, and that's why the lower taxes.
18:12:56 <jessica> yeah, we have those too.
18:13:23 <sbp> personally I think that stopping licking cows would be just as effective
18:13:31 <jessica> I also find it amusing that apparently *we*, Massachusetts, apparently *fucked over the entire nation* wrt health care.
18:13:34 <sbp> but people do love their cowlicks
18:13:55 <jessica> because, um, we already *have* mandatory state-run health care here.
18:14:20 <jessica> If you don't have private care and can afford to pay for the subsidised private care currently available, you get whacked at tax time for not enroling.
18:14:28 <sbp> and Obama was your president a year before he was anybody else's
18:14:28 <Monty> ld: symbol(s) not MY FRIEND, she's not been taken out amongst all kinds of manage views, you mean "it only looks like in-car navigation anyway when [bjoern] Björk to US teeth in project.
18:14:45 <sbp> when [bjoern] Björk to US teeth in project?
18:14:47 <jessica> sbp: we're also the only state McGovern carried in 1972. We're not really an indicator of the nation as a whole.
18:15:15 <jessica> actually, we had state-run health care come in back in 2006, I think ...
18:15:43 <jessica> here we go. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_health_care
18:15:56 <sbp> gibbon: funky: do
18:16:25 <jessica> Through the law, Massachusetts provides free health care for residents earning less than 150% of the federal poverty level (FPL), and partially-subsidized health care for those earning up to 300% of the FPL, depending on an income-based sliding scale. The law is credited with covering an additional 439,000 Massachusetts residents as of April 1, 2008.
18:16:55 <jessica> We also cover abortions, dental care, vision care, and a fuckton of other things that the federal government doesn't, which is part of the reason that relying on Massachusetts to care about national health care is kind of stupid.
18:17:35 * sbp tafts to the 10th Amendment
18:17:46 <Arnia> Where did USians get the idea of 'death boards' from?
18:17:57 <sbp> probably from waterboarding
18:18:02 <Arnia> I mean... why did it become such a pervasive myth?
18:18:10 <jessica> Arnia: please bear in mind that I am not from that part of America, but I'll try to explain.
18:18:39 <jessica> Right now, with private health coverage, there is a bureaucrat in Connecticut (I am not kidding, almost all the companies are based out of Connecticut) that decides what is and isn't covered by your private health insurance plan.
18:19:07 <jessica> For instance, massive amounts of fertility treatment aren't covered.
18:19:33 <jessica> I even had to pay $63 (generic tablets) for fertility treatment when I needed it. (But I didn't live in Massachusetts then and it was 2000.)
18:19:39 <jessica> But.
18:19:57 <jessica> Also, now, it's quite normal for "experimental" treatment to not be paid for by private insurers.
18:20:17 <jessica> If it's *actually* experimental, the government usually foots the bill as part of the National Institutes of Health research studies.
18:20:32 <jessica> If it's just that you have a shitty health insurance plan, too bad, so sad, bye-bye.
18:21:13 <jessica> There are a huge number of dodges in our tax system to get people onto impoverished-poverty-aided taxpayer-funded health plans earlier if they're in a long-term possibly-terminal situation.
18:21:13 <Monty> no. the name. oh yes
18:21:19 <jessica> But I digress a little.
18:21:31 <jessica> Anyway, right now, the idea is that you can pay for whatever kind of health insurance plan you like.
18:22:01 <jessica> People being who they are, and prioritising TiVo over other things, often buy crappy health insurance plans and then expect the government to pay for further treatment through Medicaid and Medicare.
18:22:33 <jessica> What these people think will happen once health care is nationalised, they're only going to get the crappy health insurance they would have selected for themselves and their loved ones.
18:22:38 <sbp> is TiVo expensive?
18:22:43 <Arnia> and the notion that the UK has 'death boards' comes from?
18:22:44 <jessica> Not really. $20 a month or somesuch.
18:22:54 <jessica> Well, this is where I'm going.
18:23:03 <sbp> she claims to be getting there
18:23:11 <jessica> The crappy health insurance now won't pay for almost any cancer treatment because it's expensive.
18:23:26 <jessica> And even good health insurance plans have a ceiling on how much they will pay.
18:23:37 <jessica> So we have death boards, basically, but they're handled privately.
18:23:58 <jessica> They're also not about killing your grandmother, but more like, "If 3 bone marrow transplants didn't do the trick, we're not paying for a fourth."
18:24:12 <jsled> Arnia: Palin.
18:24:16 <sbp> hehe
18:24:59 <jessica> Anyway, these people are convinced that government being chronically underfunded (often due to their own tax fraud) and being gigantic and evolving at about the same rate as a new species, they're going to get stuck with no treatment for extraordinary conditions.
18:25:32 <jessica> They are also very confused and think that Medicare is a private program (it's paid for by government for all pensioners and all disabled) and it's being taken away by "the Negro" in the White House.
18:25:49 <BigJibby> neat http://www.1227.com
18:26:04 <jessica> The largest and most consistent voting bloc in the United States is the elderly, presumably because no one else cares about city councillor elections and the like.
18:26:11 <jessica> So they're the most effective lobbyists.
18:26:17 <jessica> They're also hilarious to listen to on this debate.
18:26:32 <jessica> "THEY'LL DECIDE TO KILL ME".
18:27:07 <jessica> As opposed to our current system, where pensioners purchase a cheap add-on plan to cover what Medicare doesn't, until their grandchildren decide that they're tired of keeping Grandma around and start talking about "final hospice options".
18:27:31 <jessica> So, that's the summary.
18:27:55 <jessica> Are you understanding how confused, under-educated people who don't trust politicians are seeing this as a "THEY'RE GOING TO KILL US" thing?
18:28:32 <Arnia> Yeah... I just don't get why they're so convinced that this happens here
18:28:45 <sbp> because UK = Iraq = Socialism
18:29:17 <Arnia> oh... right
18:29:21 * Arnia looks very puzzled
18:29:22 <jessica> Actually, Arnia, the real problem is that most of these people are not basing their conceptualisation around the U.K., which few of them have ever visited, but more Canada.
18:29:30 <jessica> Canada has a lot of health care tourists.
18:29:36 <sbp> and the UK is Supercanada
18:30:06 <jessica> Canadians often get general regular care in Canada, but for specialised programs that are chronically underfunded and unavailable and with long waiting lists, they elect to come to the U.S. to participate and fork over their own cash for the program.
18:30:07 <sbp> our maple syrup is made of gold suspended in an emulsion of the vaginal fluids of vestal virgins
18:30:24 <sbp> hmm, there could be a market for that
18:30:26 <jessica> If you met a Vestal Virgin on your way to a death sentence, it was automatically commuted.
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18:30:29 <Monty> welcome, jeanniecool
18:30:34 <sbp> penis
18:30:45 <jeanniecool> dammit
18:30:48 <jessica> by the way, sbp, what *do* you lot put on your pancakes instead of maple syrup?
18:30:55 <jsled> yeah, the "death panels" business isn't about the UK.
18:30:56 <jeanniecool> You beat (heh heh) me to it!!
18:31:04 <sbp> sugar, lemon juice, or golden syrup
18:31:08 <jessica> (I'm assuming it's something else, as I believe sugar maples are native to the U.S.)
18:31:11 <jessica> Golden syrup?
18:31:18 <jessica> That sounds like a fetish. What is it really?
18:31:22 <sbp> .wik Lyle's golden syrup
18:31:24 <phenny> "Golden syrup is a pale treacle." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_syrup
18:31:38 <sbp> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lyle'sGoldenSyrup.jpg
18:31:40 <jessica> Ah. Thank you.
18:31:43 <sbp> sex in a tin essentially
18:31:51 <jeanniecool> We don't have treacle in the US, so that doesn't help.
18:31:56 * jessica notes to self, if travelling to U.K., bring own syrup for pancakes.
18:31:57 <BigJibby> you can do that?
18:32:10 <sbp> that would be a good point except that golden syrup is better
18:32:18 <jeanniecool> Sure - just ask the Cowardly Lion.
18:32:28 * jeanniecool licks jessica
18:32:36 <Arnia> lemon juice is preferred
18:32:38 <sbp> it'll give you Type II diabetes after half a pancake, but you'll enjoy it
18:32:44 <jessica> um, jeannie? maybe not there, but I've gotten treacle tart here in Boston.
18:32:51 <jeanniecool> okay
18:32:58 <jessica> It's more "accustomed lifelong taste", sean.
18:33:05 <jeanniecool> It exists, sure, but not v. common.
18:33:17 <jessica> I believe that's how your lot manage to actually survive eating steak that's been boiled and chip butties.
18:33:31 <sbp> boiled steak?
18:33:37 <jessica> by the way, is the daily show website working for you again yet?
18:33:44 <sbp> I will check
18:33:51 * Arnia is very confused about what the US thinks our cooking is like...
18:33:54 <jessica> http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-april-1-2010/sarkozy-visits-the-u-s-
18:34:23 <sbp> it says videos are not available in my socialist paradise
18:34:39 <sbp> I've never had steak which has been boiled as far as I can recall
18:35:29 <Arnia> I used to take Americans out for sunday lunch
18:35:37 <sbp> except perhaps pieces of steak in a stew, but I can't remember having ever had such a stew. hmm... actually perhaps I did once but I can't remember if that was beef or lamb, and anyway it was cooked by an American so
18:35:44 <jessica> Sunday lunch is not a normal thing for us.
18:35:55 <jessica> We like to sleep late and then eat breakfast food at 2 p.m.
18:35:57 <Arnia> they couldn't believe how good the food was
18:36:16 <Arnia> particularly the meat
18:36:16 <jessica> sbp: this was 1 April on The Daily Show, maybe it's on the CNN International site.
18:36:25 <sbp> I used to have sirloin a lot
18:36:32 <jessica> it was Broiled Frog. Their U.K. man got into it.
18:36:32 <Monty> "you"
18:36:34 <sbp> but then they seemed to downgrade the sirloin category to rump
18:36:40 <sbp> and fillet became the new sirloin
18:36:55 <sbp> we pronounce fillet "fill-it", because we Anglicised the fuck out of it
18:36:57 <jessica> "Try growing up across the Channel from those clam-shankers!"
18:37:01 <jessica> "Is that ... bad?"
18:37:19 <sbp> jolly John Oliver you mean?
18:37:29 <jessica> yep.
18:37:43 <sbp> he's so great
18:37:49 <sbp> even though he's essentially American
18:37:50 * jeanniecool hearts him
18:37:53 <Arnia> .o twitter FakeAPStylebook
18:38:01 <jessica> "Seriously a country that got outflanked from the same direction *twice* in 25 years? I'll give you a hint! They're coming from Belgium!"
18:38:13 <sbp> hehe...
18:38:15 <phenny> Could not find status 1 for FakeAPStylebook
18:38:29 <Arnia> http://twitter.com/FakeAPStylebook
18:38:30 <jessica> He then "gets all homesick" since he's hating on the French.
18:38:40 <jessica> "Is there anything I can do to make you feel more at home?"
18:38:40 <Arnia> 'Use of the word "paradigm" is good shorthand for "I have no idea what I'm saying."'
18:38:53 <sbp> "methodology" too
18:38:56 <sbp> and "salient"
18:39:00 <jessica> "Um, can I drunkenly headbutt you until I shatter your nose?"
18:39:34 <sbp> that does happen surprisingly often
18:39:48 <jessica> I liked him on Mock the Week too, sbp. He was still pretty British then.
18:40:12 <sbp> I only found out about Mock the Week recently
18:40:17 <jessica> After Mr. Stewart declines the opportunity, he starts hating on the Americans big time.
18:40:20 <jessica> ... WHAT?
18:40:21 <Arnia> "Announce hunting season in large type above the fold on page one for the convenience of cartoon ducks and rabbits."
18:40:25 <jessica> You didn't know about MtW?
18:40:36 <jessica> Oh, man. Frankie Boyle is so worth it.
18:40:40 <jessica> and now he's left.
18:40:46 <jessica> I don't think I've watched a single episode since.
18:41:07 <sbp> hmm. well yes, it's only okay at present despite being presented by Dara O'Briain
18:41:49 <sbp> it's an "I wouldn't kick it out of bed" programme
18:42:22 * jessica still loves John Oliver managing to teach himself a Lawn Guyland accent to cover part of the Presidential debates.
18:42:42 <jessica> Jon Stewart commented right after that, "He worked on that all day." Pause. "Much to our delight."
18:43:33 <jessica> (Indecision 2008 - Pander Auction, if you want to look it up.)
18:43:47 <Arnia> A panda auction?
18:44:00 <Arnia> The car or the woefully maladapted mammal?
18:44:00 <sbp> the police usually turn up drunk
18:44:46 <sbp> ("da cops get blotto... no wait, my translation isn't working for some reason)
18:45:32 <Arnia> en_gb <-> en_us translation is tricky
18:45:43 <jessica> "Took de El Eye Dubble R just like tree stops, boom!"
18:46:17 <jessica> He also managed to get the pronunciation of "tawkin'" almost right.
18:46:54 <jessica> They costumed him in a nylon tracksuit to boot.
18:47:04 <Arnia> Chavtastic
18:48:51 <jessica> however, he could not pronounce Tony-Soprano style Italian.
18:49:04 <jessica> Don't you guys have imitations of Berlusconi to practice on?
18:49:26 <jessica> I mean, *someone* must be mocking Berlusconi, right?
18:50:03 <sbp> nope, only throwing cathedrals at him
18:50:18 <jessica> ... that's really too bad. he's infinitely mockable. Il Douche and all.
18:50:29 <sbp> he's too easy in a way
18:50:36 <sbp> and anyway, we have Mandelson
18:50:37 <jessica> Yeah, no kidding.
18:50:40 <Arnia> Can I throw a chapel instead? I don't have any spare cathedrals right now
18:50:50 <Arnia> sbp: give him his full title
18:50:54 <sbp> I think they sold out of the cathedrals, they became really popular
18:51:09 <Arnia> The Right Honourable Dark Lord Peter Mandelson
18:51:21 <sbp> The Right Honorable Most High Lord President Mandelson PC, Baron of North Cumberland and Blythe-on-the-Remarks
18:51:27 <[bjoern]> yo
18:51:37 <Arnia> *Most High Dark Lord
18:51:42 <sbp> sorry, *Dark yeah
18:52:04 <jessica> That's the sort of title that I expect to be followed up with '05 Regatta Champion.
18:52:09 * sbp was too busy thinking ahead to Blythe-on-the-Remarks
18:52:13 <Arnia> jessica: they've taken to calling him the Dark Lord in debates in the Commons now
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18:52:26 <[bjoern]> Is satan okay with people having other dark lords?
18:52:31 <[bjoern]> Besides him, that is.
18:52:44 <jessica> "All-Hell Regatta Winner, '06"
18:53:15 <sbp> despite him being the third most honored man in British politics
18:53:48 <Arnia> sbp: I wish I knew how he does it...
18:53:54 <sbp> yeah...
18:54:02 <Arnia> he has amazing tenacity if nothing else
18:54:08 <sbp> wonder if Dianne Abbott is his secret love child
18:54:10 <Arnia> most people quit politics after being shamed once
18:54:26 <sbp> *Diane
18:54:42 <Arnia> Diane Abbott has an odd relationship with Michael Portillo I've noticed
18:54:48 <sbp> oh?
18:54:49 <Arnia> so, maybe
18:54:54 <sbp> hmm
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18:55:21 <Arnia> They often go on Newsnight and the like together and tear each other to pieces but in a really chummy way
18:55:34 <sbp> I smell perry-breath
18:55:41 <Arnia> Pears!
18:56:07 <sbp> jessica: you left us too long, we went British
18:56:26 <[bjoern]> .title http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2010/04/09/2010-04-09_mom_sends_adopted_boy_back_to_russia_with_note_i_no_longer_wish_to_parent_this_c.html
18:56:26 <phenny> [bjoern]: Mom sends adopted boy back to Russia with note: I no longer wish to parent this child
18:56:30 <jessica> I have other channels to terrorise, sbp.
18:56:32 <Arnia> jessica: is there a US politician like Mandelson?
18:56:38 <[bjoern]> (7y)
18:56:42 <sbp> Ken Starr maybe?
18:56:50 <Arnia> I mean, in terms of his ability to bounce back
18:57:02 <Arnia> He's even more bullet proof than Blair
18:57:02 <sbp> I doubt there's anybody in recorded history like him
18:57:13 <jessica> um, yeah. Dick Cheney.
18:57:26 <sbp> and now he's a life peer, heh
18:57:33 <jessica> Rasputin?
18:57:38 <jessica> Richard M. Nixon?
18:57:47 <sbp> so I predict he'll be disgraced again, and then a few months later he'll just start attending sessions again
18:57:53 <sbp> Nixon was not exactly bulletproof
18:58:00 <jessica> um.
18:58:00 <Arnia> sbp: You have to admire it in a strange way. He is the Lord President of the Privy Council and he systematically tried to destroy the prime minister only a few years ago
18:58:01 <[bjoern]> Has anyone actually checked that Tony Blair is bullet proof?
18:58:35 <jessica> Dude, he started his political career in the 1950s and had multiple White House runs.
18:58:40 <jessica> He was the Rasputin of our politics.
18:58:50 <sbp> yeah, but he ultimately lost
18:58:54 <jessica> He even had to ditch his first vice president for lacking finesse in his stealing.
18:58:58 <sbp> Mandelson ultimately now has a life peerage
18:59:05 <jessica> actually, i know exactly who.
18:59:07 <jessica> Daley.
18:59:09 <jessica> Hizzoner.
18:59:13 <jessica> The Man on Fourah.
18:59:17 <Arnia> Mandelson is now in charge of the highest authority in the land
18:59:23 <Arnia> It is hard to beat that
18:59:50 <jessica> anyway, as for bulletproof-ness of the Blairs, can't we start with Cherie Blair first?
18:59:56 <Arnia> I'm not sure if anyone really knows how he did it
19:00:14 <Arnia> the entire of the commons seems regularly baffled by this point
19:00:17 <jessica> sbp: http://www.theonion.com/articles/illinois-corruption-timeline,8532/
19:00:28 <jessica> "After being dared by a group of visiting mayors, a drunken Mayor Richard M. Daley orders downtown Chicago airport Meigs Field torn up in the dead of night, just to prove he can."
19:00:33 <jessica> 1. This actually happened.
19:00:39 <jessica> 2. He's still Mayor of Chicago.
19:01:06 <sbp> despite being dead?
19:01:12 <sbp> oh, I was looking up Richard J. Daley
19:01:14 <sbp> confusing!
19:01:16 <jessica> More to the point:
19:01:17 <jessica> http://www.theonion.com/articles/city-of-chicago-to-modernize-outdated-graft-progra,17140/
19:01:24 <Arnia> Lord High President of the Privy Council > Mayor of Chicago
19:01:41 <jessica> "It's been business as usual for too long in Chicago, and now it's time to find more efficient ways to misuse authority for personal gain," said Daley, who has served as Chicago's mayor since 1989. "We must modernize our illegitimate activities right now, today, before it becomes impossible for public officials to act in my best self-interests."
19:01:50 <sbp> haha. "Since the airport was still operating when this happened, this left planes trapped with no way of flying out."
19:01:58 <jessica> There are unlimited options to steal in Illinois politics. Absolutely unlimited.
19:02:29 <jessica> sbp: yeah. he was pissed that it didn't go through the way he wanted, so he called up some friends who happened to know some people who worked in construction.
19:02:44 <jessica> (Basically, all Chicago machine politicians have freedom to call on the Mafia as needed.)
19:02:50 <Arnia> jessica: why is Illinois so lawless?
19:02:54 <sbp> I still maintain that Mandelson is more powerful
19:03:02 <sbp> dinner with the Rothschilds and all that
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19:03:13 <Arnia> Not only more powerful but also more hypnotic
19:03:22 <jessica> Arnia: No clue. Probably because it's the only large city in the Midwest and was a major tranportation centre as a result.
19:03:34 <jessica> That meant lots of cargo coming through, plus which it's close to the Canadian border.
19:03:37 <Arnia> As I said, the people who made him president of the PC don't seem entirely sure what happened
19:03:57 <nsh> tweepy++
19:04:15 <jessica> The opportunities to further your personal income in a situation like that are almost without parallel.
19:04:22 <sbp> oh, interesting tidbit:
19:04:23 <sbp> —
19:04:23 <jessica> There was a definite baksheesh issue.
19:04:23 <sbp> This is the first time that the Lord President has not been a leader of one of the Houses since the period 20 October 1963 to 16 October 1964, wherein Lord Hailsham, after resigning as Leader of the House of Lords, kept the office along with the offices of Minister for Sport and, from 1 April 1964, also of Secretary of State for Education and Science
19:04:24 <sbp> —
19:05:04 <jessica> but the system in Chicago as it stands now is basically that you sign in to vote and you hand your unmarked ballot to your ward boss.
19:05:19 * jessica exaggerates not in the least, which is actually pretty sad.
19:05:52 <Arnia> sbp: he must have been a busy man
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19:07:17 * jessica tries to remember that the reason everything seems centralised in Europe is because it is.
19:07:29 <jessica> which is one of the reasons we have such bitter political fights with you.
19:07:43 <jessica> The CIA world factbook helpfully informs me that the U.K. is slightly smaller than the State of Oregon.
19:07:44 <Monty> "you"
19:07:46 <sbp> man, I'm still finding things about Mandelson
19:07:47 <sbp> "In 2008, melamine added to milk in China caused kidney stones and other ailments in thousands of Chinese children, and killed at least six. To show his confidence in Chinese dairy products, Mandelson drank a glass of Chinese yoghurt in front of reporters. The following week, he was hospitalised for a kidney stone; despite the apparent irony, the events were probably unconnected."
19:08:15 <jessica> There are politicians in this world completely capable of drinking evil and pissing out graft projects.
19:08:27 <jessica> The Kennedys were good at it, but the Kennedy era is over.
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19:10:00 <jessica> Iceland is smaller than Kentucky. France is smaller than Texas. Germany is smaller than Montana. Italy is slightly larger than Arizona.
19:10:11 * jessica shrugs.
19:10:18 <sbp> and your mother is Italian, and your dad's a Greek
19:10:27 <Arnia> and your dog is from Yorkshire
19:10:28 <jessica> And smelt of elderberries.
19:11:26 <jessica> I'm just noting that if you ever look at, for example, a tax revenue map, that shows how much of tax paid from a place is spent in the place, you'd find that virtually all of the two American coastlines and Chicago are saturated with money going out that doesn't come back in.
19:11:52 <sbp> I saw a plot of that the other day
19:11:54 <jessica> I find it interesting that the coastlines and Chicago are dominated by social democrats, because you'd think that they'd be the ones saying, "Fuck giving my money to you. You spend it on drunken rednecks."
19:11:58 <sbp> of tax going out of and into states
19:12:07 * jessica nods.
19:12:26 <sbp> was pretty amusing
19:12:29 <jessica> but for instance, we see nothing wrong with a state having its own standards for teacher education and the like.
19:12:32 <jessica> it's a size issue.
19:12:48 <jessica> also a homogenity issue.
19:12:54 <[bjoern]> The Lerchensporne edit still hasn't been reviewed.
19:13:43 <jessica> but yeah. I have no idea why we're all social democrats and the poor people who are pretty much fucked are all going nuts for Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin.
19:13:54 <sbp> .img Glenn Beck
19:13:54 <phenny> sbp: http://radicalrecruit.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/glenn_beck.jpg
19:13:55 <phenny> More here: http://images.google.com/images?q=Glenn%20Beck
19:13:57 <jessica> I mean, Sarah Palin naked might be worth seeing, but only if you shoved a ball gag in her mouth first.
19:14:06 <sbp> [bjoern]: it just occurred to me that I haven't seen Lady Gaga's genitalia yet
19:14:10 <Arnia> Palin has done very well out of losing
19:14:19 <Arnia> maybe her and Mandelson should have a child
19:14:20 <sbp> aha! we have our Mandelson!
19:14:21 <sbp> hehe
19:14:31 <sbp> don't load glenn_beck.jpg
19:14:36 <[bjoern]> jessica: Can't we see her daughters instead please?
19:14:46 <jessica> Glenn Beck is a television presenter who has psychotherapy televised across the entire nation.
19:14:48 <[bjoern]> And do the gag thing regardless?
19:14:51 <sbp> can't be long surely
19:15:05 <Arnia> Her daughters can't be long?
19:15:18 <sbp> till Lady Gaga's genitalia get thrust upon us so to speak
19:15:27 <sbp> they'll be in the next Labour mashup ad or something
19:15:28 <Arnia> ew
19:15:39 <sbp> all kinds of puns going on there, man
19:15:42 <jessica> hilarity is free:
19:15:44 <jessica> http://www.salon.com/news/2010/04/07/us_people_bristol_palin/index.html
19:15:52 <jessica> "Bristol Palin says that if girls knew how tough it was to be a mom, they'd think twice about having sex."
19:15:56 <Arnia> HilarityIsFree, the new column from the Guardian
19:16:14 <jessica> ... actually, Bristol, the rest of us have the discipline to procure and systematically use contraceptives.
19:16:15 <Arnia> (only funny to UKians)
19:16:27 <jessica> There's no typo in HilarityIsFree :(
19:17:02 <Arnia> *inserts one in YOUR FACE instead*
19:17:17 <sbp> only abstention can keep you pure and gentle
19:17:24 <sbp> after your unplanned teenage pregnancy, I mean
19:17:27 <jessica> There was a recent study out of the University of Illinois that proved that most teens who took virginity pledges not only had sex earlier than teens who didn't, and never used contraception, *they often forgot taking them altogether*.
19:17:57 <sbp> perhaps they thought the virginity pledges were some kind of drug
19:18:27 <jessica> sbp: a long article on the differing attitudes between teen-aged pregnancy and teen-aged sexuality in the U.S. is here:
19:18:30 <jessica> http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/11/03/081103fa_fact_talbot
19:18:33 <jessica> .title
19:18:34 <phenny> jessica: Dept. of Disputation: Red Sex, Blue Sex : The New Yorker
19:18:44 <[bjoern]> They might also think twice about voting for people advocating abstinence-only education.
19:18:48 <sbp> tl;dr, summary?
19:18:54 <jessica> basically, in the conservative states, teen-aged pregnancy is fine, but teen-aged sex is horrible.
19:19:10 <sbp> okay, ...what?
19:19:18 <[bjoern]> Think Maria.
19:19:18 <jessica> in the states having some basis in reality, teen-aged pregnnacy is a major issue, but teen-aged sexuality is fine.
19:19:21 <jessica> Yes.
19:19:23 <jessica> Very much so.
19:19:26 <sbp> or artificial insemination
19:19:28 <jessica> Madonna complexes and pledges to reform.
19:19:40 <jessica> Evangelical teen-agers get pregnant *constantly*.
19:19:54 <sbp> semen. faster than a jaguar. delivered fresh to your Lady Regina!
19:19:59 <jessica> Note that Sarah Palin's initial plan about Bristol's pregnancy at 17 was to have her marry her redneck boyfriend.
19:20:27 <sbp> the wombles really messed up with that one
19:20:29 <jessica> They'll always welcome back a sinner, plus which marriage age tends to be very young in those states anyway.
19:20:43 <[bjoern]> Well I would doubt that it is individual teenagers who get pregnant constantly.
19:21:11 <sbp> artificial insemination
19:21:12 <jessica> whereas parents like me inform their daughters, "Once boys start seeming interesting instead of icky, please come see me and we'll visit a Planned Parenthood."
19:21:17 <sbp> faster than a raging jaguar
19:21:31 <jessica> Note also that we usually teach sex ed to encompass a rainbow of sexual possibilities.
19:21:39 <sbp> they might start seeming icky again shortly after seeming interesting
19:23:30 <sbp> talking about virginity, the BBC is talking about defrocking at the moment
19:23:45 <sbp> "save me, save me, save me from this squeeze!"
19:23:52 <jessica> Anyway, but even my relatively-conservative ex has encouraged my daughters to consider lesbianism so he doesn't need to shoot their boyfriends.
19:23:55 <jessica> Quote unquote.
19:24:19 <jessica> Well, I suppose that's *one* way to deal with it. But note that he doesn't expect them to abstain from sexuality - he just doesn't want to deal with a 15-year-old boy. Ever.
19:24:19 <sbp> not with one another, I hope
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19:24:28 <jessica> No. He's twisted, but not like that.
19:24:34 <jessica> Also, be fair.
19:24:39 <sbp> that would be a bit south of the border
19:24:40 <jessica> What were *you* thinking about as a 15-year-old boy?
19:24:56 <jessica> Fathers of daughters have to *live* with that knowledge.
19:24:58 <sbp> hmm. I was mainly coining trademarks on buses
19:25:00 <sbp> to be honest
19:25:08 <[bjoern]> I read that as "Planet Parenthood" and was wondering if it's some kind of amusement park, restaurant, or space mail delivery service.
19:25:13 * jessica snerks.
19:25:25 <Arnia> When I was fifteen? Not about girls...
19:25:26 <jessica> It's a chain of contraceptive clinics founded by Margaret Sanger.
19:25:36 <jessica> no, Arnia, you weren't thinking about girls.
19:25:51 <sbp> he was probably thinking about trademarks too
19:27:35 <jessica> Arnia: http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/SavageLove?oid=3442639
19:28:01 <Arnia> I was thinking about which companies I wanted to start
19:28:07 <jessica> First, a stroll down memory lane: Hearing anal sex referred to as "Greek" took me back to the days when I was a 13-year-old closet case reading the personal ads in the back of a purloined copy of the Advocate, wondering what the fuck fags meant when they described themselves as "Greek active" or
19:28:12 <jessica> "Greek passive," and why it was that Greek actives invariably described themselves as "French passive." It all seemed so mysterious and continental. Now, everyone is either a top or a bottom and romance is dead.
19:28:44 <jessica> Quel dommage.
19:28:50 <sbp> that's why I read Rousseau
19:28:52 <[bjoern]> I like the bit about lesbianism above.
19:29:00 <[bjoern]> And shooting. Great combination.
19:29:15 <jessica> Bjoern: maybe if you're Dick Cheney?
19:29:24 <sbp> lols
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19:29:39 <sbp> did Dick Cheney ever have a run in with Dan Quayle?
19:29:53 <jessica> which oddly brings me to another Savage Love column: http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/SavageLove?oid=118733
19:30:01 <[bjoern]> I wouldn't shoot in the face. It's not subtle.
19:30:31 <jessica> at any rate, it's difficult because girls tend to be a bit more, um, romantic and unrealistic about men at times.
19:31:02 <jessica> Although actually, my daughter is currently dangling a handful of them who are desperately dancing attendance on her and is using them for the purpose of not having to lug her schoolbag, complete with laptop and six coursebooks, around.
19:31:24 <Arnia> how wonderfully pragmatic
19:31:39 <jessica> I've taught her well. They all think they have a chance, she thanks all of them graciously and kindly, she smiles at all of them, but doesn't accept week-end dates.
19:31:50 <jessica> she is. really, she is.
19:32:14 <[bjoern]> I went with the "not taking books to school" solution. I think in the last years I had a pen and some paper most of the time.
19:32:22 <jessica> actually, people who know us IRL are kind of freaked out about the fact that we have a slightly more blunt version of me running around in the body of a 12-year-old.
19:32:24 <jessica> They're frightened.
19:32:27 <jessica> They should be.
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19:33:07 <jessica> (Even weirder, my younger, non-adopted [fresh from the ... never mind], biological daughter looks exactly like me and acts exactly like crschmidt.)
19:33:49 <jessica> She's 9. They have tested her for every learning disability known to mankind.
19:33:58 <jessica> She seems to have none of them or all of them or maybe one that can't be described.
19:34:13 <jessica> they can't really deal with "savant child who gives you university-level answer to your question ... three weeks later."
19:34:26 <jessica> In the mean time, she plays a decent game of chase-her-shadow.
19:35:01 <Arnia> hey, they're just jealous they can't learn a concept at that level in just three weeks
19:35:07 <sbp> fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa
19:35:12 <sbp> fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa-fa!
19:35:17 <sbp> I am a dull and simple lad
19:35:22 <sbp> cannot tell water from champagne...
19:35:28 <sbp> and I have never met the Queen!
19:35:33 <sbp> and I wish that I had all he has got
19:35:37 <sbp> and I wish I could be like David Watts!
19:35:44 <Arnia> You should date Peter Mandelson
19:35:58 <sbp> I wouldn't be able to stand the spin
19:36:13 <Arnia> ... ew
19:37:26 <sbp> jessica: gonna ship her off to one of the ladies' colleges in Oxocatriensis?
19:39:49 <sbp> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Hall_College,_Cambridge
19:39:53 <sbp> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newnham_College,_Cambridge
19:39:58 <sbp> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_Cavendish_College,_Cambridge
19:40:22 <Arnia> "Werewolves are lycanthropes. Was-wolves have been culled by the Department of the Interior."
19:40:27 <sbp> I thought Oxford had some, but it doesn't
19:40:43 <sbp> they used to before 2008
19:40:58 <sbp> sorry, 2006. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Hilda's_College,_Oxford
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19:51:49 <jeanniecool> Penis?
19:51:59 <[bjoern]> Topic.
19:52:19 * jeanniecool giggles
19:52:20 <jeanniecool> awwww
19:52:24 * jeanniecool hadn't even noticed!
19:52:25 <BigJibby> the little dangly bit on males...
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19:54:20 <BigJibby> .title http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060920160414AAp50Il
19:54:21 <phenny> BigJibby: Whats the dangly bit in the back of your mouth called?? - Yahoo! UK & Ireland Answers
19:54:44 <[bjoern]> Depends on what you are doing.
19:55:01 <jeanniecool> [bjoern]++
19:55:02 <jeanniecool> [bjoern]++
19:55:45 <jeanniecool> One was for the topic, and one for the dangling joke.
19:57:06 <[bjoern]> You're welcome.
19:58:18 <sbp> till Lady Gaga's genitalia get thrust upon us so to speak66666666666666666666 - heh, typed this just by leaning over. quite skillful
19:59:35 <BigJibby> when I lean over nothing happens
20:00:11 <sbp> http://static1.firedoglake.com/34/files/2010/04/kyrgyzfannypack-300x232.jpg
20:00:22 <sbp> lean over better
20:01:13 <BigJibby> still get nothing.
20:03:41 <BigJibby> never leave home without your bazooka and sheild.
20:03:48 <jsled> http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/04/crisis_in_kyrgyzstan.html#photo33 is a better picture of that dude.
20:03:54 <jsled> and his awesome fanny pack.
20:04:01 <sbp> —
20:04:02 <sbp> Yesterday she leapt to the defence to one of her fans, 15-year-old Cole Goforth from Tennessee in the U.S.
20:04:02 <sbp> He was sent home from school for wearing one of her T-shirts, bearing the legend 'I (heart) Lady Gay Gay'.
20:04:02 <sbp> She tweeted: 'I love you Cole, you just be yourself. You're perfect the way God made you.
20:04:02 <sbp> 'Thank u for wearing your tee-shirt proud at school, you make me so proud, at the monsterball, you are an inspiration to us all. I love you.'
20:04:02 <sbp> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1264655/Lady-Gagas-8-inch-heels.html#ixzz0kdRtzORw
20:04:03 <Monty> interesting approach
20:04:04 <sbp> —
20:04:24 <sbp> jsled: thanks!
20:08:25 <sbp> http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/04/09/article-0-0911FD9A000005DC-589_468x653.jpg
20:16:15 <Jibbler> that photo makes me want to hit someone
20:16:40 <sbp> you have to use a gym ball
20:16:53 <sbp> http://imgur.com/eyngS.gif
20:18:03 <sbp> "Darling writes: Entire Tory economic strategy in disarray" - BBC News
20:18:13 <sbp> well of course, given the economy that they're going to inherit
20:18:31 <sbp> from... oh, who's the existing chancellor? MAYBE I FORGET
20:19:02 <sbp> Stephen Timms admits there will be job losses
20:19:10 <sbp> (hopefully his)
20:20:28 <Jibbler> stephen "intellectual property" timms
20:21:12 <Arnia> Mr Sion isn't standing for re-election is he?
20:21:56 <Jibbler> http://twitter.com/paulmutton/status/11838762703
20:22:24 <sbp> he's not
20:26:19 * Arnia is relieved
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20:42:34 <BigJibby> http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Unit-Tested.aspx
20:45:34 <BigJibby> http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Injection-Proofd.aspx
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22:18:19 <[bjoern]> Monty: $
22:18:23 <Monty> that'd be a glass of doom, and i do the red shirts, so lawless?
22:18:33 <[bjoern]> Monty: if you do it, probably
22:18:37 <Monty> will translate "nick:" to help? btw, this was thinking lately
22:18:50 <[bjoern]> Monty: I am not sure.
22:18:51 <Monty> You're welcome.
22:19:06 <[bjoern]> Monty: You did not really confuse me, so, that doesn't count
22:19:07 <Monty> Why do you think I did not really confuse you ?
22:19:16 <[bjoern]> Monty: introspection
22:19:18 <Monty> overweight trawling requiem!
22:19:30 <[bjoern]> Monty: careful there, fella.
22:19:31 <Monty> What does that suggest to you ?
22:19:42 <[bjoern]> Monty: That you want a good bot-beating.
22:19:43 <Monty> jaguar
22:19:54 <[bjoern]> Monty: Or a jaguar, that was my second guess.
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22:20:01 <Monty> yeah... iirc that's like... 25 or all Chicago as to him for bleaching her if I'm puzzled at that ... that's why people can turn it either.
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23:23:43 <[bjoern]> Monty: good bot. yeah, run after the chat line.
23:23:44 <Monty> dtm == sprays;
23:23:54 <[bjoern]> Monty: empirical evidence?
23:23:59 <Monty> ld: symbol(s) not been invited to move making fun lyrics that presentation would need this right ââ¬â? t
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23:53:41 <nsh> .gc "general elexion"
23:53:42 <phenny> "general elexion": 0
23:53:46 <nsh> MINE MINE MINE!
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23:58:17 <[bjoern]> I get http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/F42005?thread=168043 at least.
23:59:47 <sbp> 'I tuned in to watch the tribute band Bjorn Again on TV a few months ago, just to see if they copied the incorrect pronunciation, but they didn�t sing Fernando so I couldn�t tell. Have any researchers heard them?'
23:59:52 <sbp> complete with encoding problems
