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03:05:37 <alabd> Good day all , may humble=i ask question in private from anyone (Question should not be publice)
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06:07:47 <[bjoern]> phenny, tell sbp yay! http://rixstep.com/1/20100424,00.shtml
06:07:47 <phenny> [bjoern]: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
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09:57:39 <sbp> yo
09:59:30 <sbp> "Of course, there are two sides to every story. And multiple sides (from the dev world, at least) are now surfacing to say that Rixstep's post reads like pure fiction. As a result, countless other devs and websites (including our friends at 9to5Mac) are firmly keeping this report from Rixstep in the rumor column."
09:59:34 <sbp> http://modmyi.com/forums/mac-news/707751-mac-os-x-10-7-talk-sparks-controversy.html
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10:10:54 <sbp> http://9to5mac.com/mac_like_iphone
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10:12:58 <sbp> haha, what? 'The Foreign Office apologises for a "foolish" document suggesting the Pope could launch "Benedict" condoms during his UK visit.'
10:13:08 <sbp> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8642404.stm
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10:17:40 <sbp> .title http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8641165.stm
10:17:43 <phenny> sbp: BBC News - Science enthusiasts chase dream in BBC competition
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11:53:41 <sbp> .py len('#######################################')
11:53:42 <phenny> 39
11:53:43 <sbp> Monty: note what?
11:53:44 <Monty> nevermind
11:53:51 <sbp> k
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12:29:28 <nsh> sbp, i think i have the one before you
12:29:34 <nsh> i definitely remember doing this
12:30:51 <sbp> doesn't look like it, I listed them all
12:30:53 <sbp> bob0 is before me
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13:09:16 <nsh> do you get the mail delivered?
13:10:04 <nsh> also
13:11:01 <nsh> nice post (antiquarian)
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13:13:14 <nsh> ARGH
13:13:21 <nsh> i noticed the font on http://750words.com/
13:13:24 <nsh> and started thinking about it
13:13:30 <nsh> I AM BECOMING ONE OF YOU
13:16:01 <sbp> which mail?
13:16:09 <sbp> I have no email from you if that's what you mean
13:16:11 <sbp> got two from DaveP
13:17:08 <nsh> The Mail
13:17:21 <nsh> wondering where you read the twit story
13:18:18 <sbp> oh, the Daily Mail. I'm not sure if I read it originally in the Daily Mail
13:18:33 <sbp> it's from 1997, so can't remember the source exactly
13:18:44 <sbp> was probably a newspaper of course, and could certainly have been the Mail
13:18:51 <sbp> but I generally only ever read the comics page in the Mail
13:18:51 <nsh> ah
13:18:56 <sbp> so it would be unusual for me to have spotted it in there
13:18:58 <nsh> assumed it was recent
13:19:18 <sbp> the citation is in the email
13:19:26 <nsh> aye
13:19:31 <nsh> i was at the library here (Jyväskylä) and the terminals linked to a website
13:19:35 <nsh> (can't remember the name)
13:19:48 <nsh> and it had access to like every country's newspapers
13:19:53 <nsh> good interface too
13:19:59 <nsh> made me decide to start a library
13:20:06 <sbp> good idea
13:20:10 <sbp> Swhack is a library don't forget
13:20:18 <nsh> word
13:20:21 <sbp> or rather the OUP class it as one
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13:20:39 <nsh> aye, assumed you meant somethign like that
13:20:42 <nsh> mmm
13:20:45 <nsh> but that makes me wonder
13:20:49 <nsh> can you start a library?
13:21:15 <nsh> non-profit but non-public-sector
13:21:29 <sbp> what kind of a library?
13:21:34 <sbp> should be easy enough to look up
13:21:53 <nsh> nsh-and-his-friends-get-to-read-shit-for-free kind of library
13:22:01 <nsh> also: gimme-teh-grants
13:22:32 <sbp> .title http://www.amazon.co.uk/Setting-Library-Information-Service-Scratch/dp/1856045587
13:22:35 <phenny> sbp: Setting Up a Library and Information Service from Scratch: Amazon.co.uk: Sheila Pantry, Peter Griffiths: Books
13:23:05 <sbp> well most libraries are either county or university libraries
13:23:15 <sbp> which are government and tuition fees and whatnot funded
13:23:20 <nsh> mmm
13:23:24 <sbp> I don't think there are many independent libraries
13:23:36 <nsh> i bet david cameron would let me start a library
13:23:42 <nsh> if i arsoned up the existing one
13:23:46 <nsh> or kicked a few pensioners
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13:23:53 <sbp> why don't you ask him? is he on twitter?
13:24:23 <sbp> anyway, remember what happened when I asked the OUP for OED access rates?
13:24:38 <sbp> what was it, £1000/annum?
13:24:57 <sbp> so you'd be looking at some *enormous* grants to have a collection which came anywhere near to a university library's online collection
13:25:35 <sbp> there's a lot of money here, journals can get away with charging such ridiculous amounts of money for access because they know that libraries can afford to spend it, and libraries can afford to spend it because they can easily defend their need to their grantors
13:26:06 <nsh> it's pretty fucked up when you think about it
13:26:15 <sbp> and since the journal people have monopolies on their information, they can pretty much set prices as high as is feasible within such a corrupt system — and so they do
13:26:30 <sbp> very fucked up, but as academics we don't care
13:26:34 <sbp> because we get it all for free
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13:27:12 <sbp> essentially it's just siphoning off a not very large layer of the taxpayer's money in order to go to random journal companies. I suppose it's like pharmaceuticals, only not quite so bad
13:27:51 <sbp> anyway, some sites do provide a good service which makes sense to charge lots of money for
13:28:04 <sbp> Early English Books Online comes to mind, that's a great site, dunno how much a subscription costs
13:28:13 <sbp> probably a lot, but then I also see a lot of actual work there
13:29:10 <sbp> they didn't just scan a few journals, provide a crap interface, and then charge £1000/annum for it. there are tens of thousands of books from all kinds of difficult institutions archived in an excellent manner with really good manually assisted transcripts and a very good working and usable interface
13:31:39 <nsh> well
13:31:43 <nsh> yeah
13:31:45 <nsh> basically
13:32:03 <nsh> it's shitty agreements like this that make the case for PRIVATAISE EVARYTUNG seem so appealing
13:32:04 <Monty> potty mouth!
13:32:07 <nsh> fuck up Monty
13:32:07 <Monty> screw you
13:32:11 <nsh> Monty, no you
13:32:11 <Monty> client
13:32:15 <nsh> Monty, bitch
13:32:18 <Monty> I firmly believe that superfluence respects speeding open days!
13:32:22 <nsh> ++
13:32:45 <sbp> not entirely convinced that privatising the library system would fix matters
13:32:50 <nsh> of course not
13:32:58 <sbp> not least because I'm sure it would introduce a whole bunch of other problems anyway
13:33:06 <nsh> the solution is to kick the journal companies in the balls
13:33:12 <sbp> the most obvious reason for change is the internet anyway
13:33:18 <sbp> things are oddly enough changing because of it
13:33:28 <sbp> just not quite at the rate and in the manner we would have liked
13:33:31 <nsh> mmm
13:33:31 <Monty> h ttp://asset.soup.io/asset/0797/2366_2c00.jpeg
13:33:39 <sbp> unfortunately I think people are being too complaisant
13:33:48 <sbp> when Radiohead's album was pulled, I think that was the crux
13:33:59 <sbp> at first people had supported Napster like sharing
13:34:05 <nsh> (sounds like an apeterif
13:34:21 <nsh> (sounds like an aperitif)
13:34:30 <sbp> but then I think the record companies won by just about convincing people that it's not quite sporting, even though as AaronSw points out, historically it could very well be considered sporting
13:34:42 <sbp> and that's leaked into pretty much everything now
13:39:33 <nsh> cunts
13:40:07 <nsh> i'm not convinced they've won anything but reprieve though
13:40:18 <sbp> hope not, but who knows
13:40:27 <sbp> this stuff has been happening for millennia, but the web is a new player
13:40:28 <nsh> people are basically used to the fact that shit's be free
13:40:45 <nsh> the rest is just a resilient pantomime
13:40:48 <sbp> not really, but nobody's used to the web
13:40:52 <nsh> well
13:41:11 <nsh> i meant in the sense of 'teh yoofs' and "music comes from youtube and then i torrents it"
13:41:31 <nsh> cat is essentially out of the bag on that one
13:41:37 <sbp> yeah, but you can't use the last ten years of web culture as an indication of what it's going to be like in the next two hundred years
13:41:48 <nsh> mmm
13:42:11 <sbp> the SDLP members got into the House of Lords and whatnot
13:42:24 <nsh> i can sort of imagine that this is a "golden age of freedoms"
13:42:29 <sbp> those same kids might grow up to be fatcats who know better how to thwart their young counterparts
13:42:34 <nsh> and the future is all drab and concrete blocks
13:42:55 <sbp> I wouldn't like to predict, personally
13:42:58 <nsh> but another voice says that media has now become a firm part of the "bread and circuses" diet
13:43:07 <sbp> think about Bush's "memex" paper
13:43:17 <sbp> and *that* was visionary, but it still reads chucklesome
13:43:27 <nsh> mmm
13:43:35 * nsh think of Lain
13:43:39 <sbp> Lain?
13:44:22 <nsh> Serial Adventure Lain
13:44:27 <nsh> *Adventures
13:44:30 <nsh> anime series
13:44:40 <sbp> explainspls
13:44:55 <nsh> purloin and watch
13:45:15 <sbp> okay, but I won't
13:45:19 <nsh> but, you must
13:45:25 <sbp> Internet Attention Hyperdefecit Disorder
13:45:42 <sbp> just summarise it into one irc line for me and make me happy
13:45:45 <nsh> .wik Serial Experiments Lain
13:45:46 <phenny> "Serial Experiments Lain is an anime series directed by Ryutaro Nakamura, original character design by Yoshitoshi ABe, screenplay written by Chiaki J. Konaka, and produced by Yasuyuki Ueda (credited as production 2nd) for Triangle Staff." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_Experiments_Lain
13:45:50 <nsh> ok, one sec
13:45:57 <nsh> also: http://www.animecrunch.com/episodes/serial-experiments-lain/
13:45:59 <nsh> it's really really good
13:48:02 <nsh> typical whimsical hyperintelligent animegirl explores identity, death and transcendence in a backdrop of cyberpunk technogoth internetings and philososmurgings
13:48:39 <nsh> [[[
13:48:41 <nsh> Lain is influenced by philosophical subjects such as reality, identity, and communication.[1] The series focuses on Lain Iwakura, an adolescent girl living in suburban Japan, and her introduction to the Wired, a global communications network similar to the Internet. Lain lives with her middle class family, which consists of her inexpressive older sister Mika, her cold mother, and her computer-obsessed father. The first ripple on the pond of Lain's lonely life appe
13:48:42 <nsh> ars when she learns that girls from her school have received an e-mail from Chisa Yomoda, a schoolmate who committed suicide. When Lain receives the message at home, Chisa tells her (in real time) that she is not dead, but has just "abandoned the flesh", and has found God in the Wired. From then on, Lain is bound to a quest which will take her ever deeper into both the network and her own thoughts.
13:48:49 <nsh> ]]] -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_Experiments_Lain
13:48:51 <sbp> no "DANGER: PROFUNDITRITE AHEAD" signs?
13:49:02 <Arnia> .title http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8339877.stm
13:49:04 <phenny> Arnia: BBC NEWS | Health | X-rays 'top scientific invention'
13:49:19 <Arnia> Apparently X-Rays have had more effect on the world than the railways
13:49:29 <nsh> it's a low-trite as Waking Life
13:49:31 <nsh> maybe lower
13:50:24 <sbp> they need to make sushi more pourous
13:50:31 <nsh> totals
13:50:33 <sbp> Arnia: second place, N-rays
13:50:44 <nsh> perhaps adhere some kind of filter-paper to the side of the sushi
13:50:54 <nsh> so it can capilerate teh gravies
13:51:31 <sbp> are there any fields of science that needs funding apart from the following? (1) medical science, (2) information science, (3) maybe astronomy for asteroid detection?
13:51:36 <sbp> *that need
13:51:46 <nsh> HIGH ENERGY PROTON LACROSSE
13:51:58 <sbp> that's sport not science
13:52:06 <nsh> well, particle physics then
13:52:10 <sbp> why?
13:52:29 <sbp> what do you want to find, more turtles?
13:52:35 <sbp> tip: try the Galapegos
13:52:35 <nsh> that's my thinking too
13:52:42 <nsh> shit, we should write to CERN
13:52:55 <nsh> but either they're wicked crooked
13:53:19 <nsh> or they genuinely believe that studying higher energies will lead to some actually productive breakthrough
13:53:36 <sbp> would love to know what
13:53:39 <Arnia> Um... I'd sort of like better materials science to reduce energy costs there
13:53:48 <nsh> personally i would spend all the money on sythesising better psychedelics
13:53:57 <sbp> as far as I recall, Feynman's argument was just that it's fascinating. which is very well is, but I'm not sure it's billions of pounds fascinating
13:54:00 <nsh> and use them to come up with less shitty theories
13:54:03 <sbp> Arnia: was classing that as engineering
13:54:13 <sbp> pretty much all engineering I'm behind
13:54:18 <Arnia> sbp: it is more theoretical chemistry
13:54:22 <nsh> shup
13:54:32 <sbp> hmm. well in that case I'd include quantum chip research and stuff too
13:54:34 <Arnia> sbp: look at things like research into graphenes
13:54:57 <nsh> also, in this vein, i think the best spurts come when a new "observe shit with this" paradigm becomes available *to lots of people easily*
13:55:13 <Arnia> sbp: do you class cognitive sciences as information sciences?
13:55:18 <sbp> yup
13:56:16 <sbp> nsh: me and my 6" newtonian reflector agree
13:56:33 <Arnia> sbp: out of curiosity, do you believe that dark matter and dark energy are a symptom of an additional set of physical objects, or errors in the laws of motion?
13:56:38 <sbp> though I still wonder why so few people made early telescopes
13:56:48 <sbp> guess grinding the lenses and making tubes was just really fucking hard
13:56:57 <sbp> I mean, I wouldn't do it now. but then there's also no point in doing it now
13:57:01 <Arnia> High precision optics is hard
13:57:13 <sbp> Spinoza seemed to do alright
13:57:32 <sbp> as far as I've ever heard, the consensus is additional set of physical objects
13:57:42 <sbp> error(s) in laws of motion certainly wouldn't surprise me
13:57:47 <sbp> cf. Mercury before Einstein
13:58:02 <Arnia> I think errors in the laws of motion would be more interesting
13:58:08 <sbp> but like Mercury before Einstein, I wouldn't like to hazard a guess. I probably would have said "Vulcan!", heh
13:58:58 <sbp> not "well you see if you distort time, then space distorts with it and vice versa, because the speed of light is fixed and anything moving relative to light must see it at the same speed, so like acceleration = gravity and you know space and time are all one system and not even Euclidean and... actually maybe it is Vulcan"
13:58:59 <Arnia> Hm. Although it would be a kicker if the discovery of the carriers of dark energy allowed us to construct a warp drive
13:59:28 <sbp> well yes, the best argument against what I'm saying is prime number research
13:59:35 <sbp> -> cryptography, which was unexpected
13:59:56 <sbp> but like, I guess you have to pitch your tent where you don't think it's going to flood
14:00:27 <sbp> anyway, people don't even learn from physics research
14:00:38 <Arnia> They don't metalearn either
14:00:40 <sbp> the general public is still getting to grips with the Newtonian view of the universe
14:00:48 <sbp> I suspect it's something to do with the Victorians
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14:01:00 <sbp> might as well blame the Victorians. I mean everybody still acts like Babbage
14:01:37 * Arnia wheezes and groans in an imitation of the TARDIS engines
14:01:59 <sbp> no I mean... measuring your neighbour's nose and all that
14:02:11 <Arnia> ah
14:03:10 <Arnia> http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/
14:04:18 <sbp> I mean heck, I love the Victorians anyway, but that's despite all the stupid crap they got up to, not because of it. sort of like how Chesterton can be so negative about the impressionists but I can be so positive
14:04:46 <sbp> because Chesterton was worried that their modernism would screw up civilisation, but now that it's actually happened we don't need to worry about that anymore so we can look at the good missing bits
14:06:30 <sbp> "See Campaign Models to see how we can replace the crude uniform national swing model with a regional swing model, and use spread betting markets to improve the prediction."
14:07:14 <sbp> very interesting. "Betting markets have the advantage that people are putting their own money at risk, which forces them to think clearly and make use of all possible information available to them. The markets also provide a useful function of taking an average over all (active) opinion on the subject to get a consensus view. The market is also forward-looking, compared with the backward-looking opinion polls."
14:07:44 <sbp> perhaps the media should be done in terms of bets
14:08:04 <Arnia> Smarkets and betfair are both operating detailed books on the election
14:08:07 <Arnia> nsh ^
14:08:20 <nsh> cool
14:09:45 <Arnia> That was weird. I just stretched my legs and they spasmed like I was having a tonic-clonic fit from the waist down.
14:10:00 <Arnia> The moment I relaxed and stopped stretching, they stopped spasming
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14:17:01 <sbp> weird
14:17:24 <Arnia> wonder if it is a part of my RSD
14:17:37 <Arnia> might look it up later when I have more time
14:19:09 <sbp> —
14:19:09 <sbp> In 1212 the council of Paris condemned those monasteries that still forbade loaning books, reminding them that lending is "one of the chief works of mercy."
14:19:10 <sbp> —
14:19:37 <Arnia> that's a wonderfully snarky comeback
14:20:45 <sbp> well, I dunno why the council said that
14:21:33 <Arnia> not as good as the fuck-you line in Doctor Who last night though
14:21:48 <sbp> oh?
14:22:57 <Arnia> The Doctor: There is one thing you never put in a trap, if you're smart - if you value your continued existence - if you have any plans about seeing tomorrow there is one thing you never EVER put in a trap. Me.
14:23:16 <sbp> hehe
14:23:42 <sbp> reminds me of...
14:23:55 <sbp> Frasier: And screw — may I add — ...you!
14:24:02 <Arnia> which given that they were surrounded on all sides by an enemy that is pretty much immortal and psychopathic...
14:24:33 <Arnia> Mind you, last night's episode opens with a ridiculously cocky escape plan
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14:41:47 <[bjoern]> remind me in 50 minutes to !
14:41:48 <Monty> [bjoern]: Okay, I'll remind you about that on Sun Apr 25 16:30:15 BST 2010
14:54:58 <deltab> Arnia: I missed that line the first time due to bloody Graham Norton popping up
14:55:28 <deltab> what is it with him interrupting Doctor Who?
15:02:26 <[bjoern]> .title http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/space/article7107207.ece
15:02:27 <phenny> [bjoern]: Don’t talk to aliens, warns Stephen Hawking - Times Online
15:03:08 <Arnia> deltab: well, the current BBC One spring trailer has the daleks trying to exterminate him
15:03:19 <Arnia> deltab: maybe the controllers feel the same way
15:03:33 <deltab> heh
15:04:55 <[bjoern]> http://games.slashdot.org/story/10/04/24/2327249/IEEE-Introduces-Mario-Level-Generation-Competition
15:04:56 <Monty> sth: what's going from json object has it kind to bob0, sshc.
15:05:01 <Arnia> I think it shows an incredible amount of style to use a predestination paradox as an escape route
15:05:52 <[bjoern]> "We hate those." - Department of Temporal Investigations on predestination paradoxa.
15:06:10 <sbp> yeah, well, ignore the DTI
15:06:24 <sbp> (Deparment of Trade and Industry in the UK)
15:07:05 <Arnia> The Angels really really freak me out
15:08:36 <deltab> that was amazing
15:08:54 <deltab> can't figure out what paradox you're referring to though
15:10:16 <Arnia> well, it isn't strictly a paradox... but I'm struggling to think of a term that distinguishes what she did and simply running away by getting into the TARDIS
15:10:37 <deltab> yeah
15:10:40 <Arnia> it is most similar to what happens in Timeline
15:10:44 <deltab> it was awesome, whatever it was
15:10:48 <Arnia> yeah
15:11:27 <Arnia> 'As I said on the dance floor last night; you should find something to hang on to'
15:14:35 <Arnia> 'It isn't supposed to make that noise. You leave the brakes on.'
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15:31:56 <Monty> [bjoern]: You asked me to remind you to !
15:32:36 <[bjoern]> Everything is proceeding according to plan.
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16:20:30 <Monty> lo alabd
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17:13:04 <Monty> bah, it's libby again
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17:55:43 <[bjoern]> Apparently I managed to build Qt without JPEG support... great job.
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17:56:17 <[bjoern]> ooooorr... there was a bug I filed I recall
17:58:24 <[bjoern]> .title https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19427
17:58:27 <phenny> [bjoern]: Bug 19427 – QWEBKIT_EXPORT maps to dllimport in static builds
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18:01:14 * Arnia returns and wishes he hadn't
18:01:27 <Arnia> My flat is full of spray paint fumes
18:01:37 <Arnia> phenny, tell sbp about http://www.fridgemagnet.org.uk/toys/dave-met.php
18:01:37 <phenny> Arnia: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
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18:15:20 <[bjoern]> Ah no, this seems to be a bug in the `browser` code sample that is part of the distribution; presumably it does not like static builds.
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18:42:49 <Monty> welcome, tro
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21:56:20 <sbp> deltab: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8642854.stm
21:56:22 <sbp> .title
21:56:24 <phenny> sbp: BBC News - Doctor Who fans angered by trailer for Over the Rainbow
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23:53:18 <jsled> .u ☭
23:53:18 <phenny> U+262D HAMMER AND SICKLE (☭)
23:53:40 <clsn> ☭
23:54:00 <clsn> I have that bound to multi_key-ampersand-c-c-c-p on my xcompose file...
23:57:33 <Arnia> clsn: how wonderfully... apt