00:02:28 <clsn> I thought so.
00:02:38 <clsn> (the ampersand is a prefix I use in general)
00:04:35 <jeanniecool> So, like, you know, penis.
00:05:13 <Arnia> I know several penises. To which are you referring?
00:05:50 <jeanniecool> that one.
00:05:52 * jeanniecool points
00:06:29 <Arnia> no, THAT one
00:07:21 * jeanniecool shakes her head.
00:07:29 <jeanniecool> No, *THAT* one.
00:08:08 <[[sroracle]]> .u heart
00:08:08 <phenny> U+2766 FLORAL HEART (❦)
00:10:13 <deltab> jeanniecool: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_rnpueur1Os4/S13YwPmTezI/AAAAAAAAAxs/W6NvaMZzYBk/s400/epic-fail-six-pack-fail.jpg
00:10:34 * jeanniecool clicks
00:11:40 * jeanniecool snorks
00:11:44 <jeanniecool> thx, deltab. :-D
00:13:18 <[[sroracle]]> clsn: Its already in /usr/share/X11/locale/en_US.UTF-8/Compose
00:13:19 <[[sroracle]]> <Multi_key> <C> <C> <C> <P> : "☭" U262D # HAMMER AND SICKLE
00:13:30 <[[sroracle]]> ☭
00:13:36 <[[sroracle]]> Just uppercase is all
00:19:42 <KragenSitaker> taisowhbcpmfdrelngyuvjkqzx
00:20:36 <KragenSitaker> clsn: have you seen http://github.com/leoboiko/pointless-xcompose?
00:24:44 <clsn> KragenSitaker: I think so; I saw it in my git-downloads directory, but iirc I wasn't impressed thereby.
00:25:38 <KragenSitaker> I am highly impressed at how comprehensive it is
00:26:30 <clsn> (maybe it wasn't the one I remembered?)
00:28:23 <clsn> Hm. 2! does seem an improvement over !&! for ‼...
00:28:36 <clsn> Tho it doesn't help with ⁉ anbd ⁈
00:35:52 <clsn> I still think ours is better.
00:40:37 <KragenSitaker> his is definitely more comprehensive though
00:40:59 <KragenSitaker> I've been toying with font design lately
00:41:04 <KragenSitaker> http://canonical.org/~kragen/tmp/anami.html
00:41:57 <clsn> C'mon, he doesn't even have ∃ and ∀...
00:46:22 <clsn> .u
00:46:22 <phenny> U+2004 THREE-PER-EM SPACE ( )
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01:25:38 <KragenSitaker> .u ∃
01:25:38 <phenny> U+2203 THERE EXISTS (∃)
01:26:10 <KragenSitaker> (sorry, a t the mmoent I'm running in an xterm in a font where I haven't drawn much outside of ASCII)
01:26:22 <deltab> http://i.imgur.com/ztS7Y.jpg
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02:06:35 <Arnia> ah... http://www.countercurrents.org/arguimbau230410.htm
02:10:11 <[bjoern]> badger badger badger badger badger -- badger.
02:17:09 <Arnia> is that a summoning or a banishing?
02:17:35 <[bjoern]> How about incoherent babbling?
02:21:50 <Arnia> That works
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04:41:35 <KragenSitaker> .u ˆ
04:41:35 <phenny> U+02C6 MODIFIER LETTER CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT (ˆ)
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07:59:50 <archels> Arnia: I predict algae will be the future of oil.
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11:48:00 <[bjoern]> .title http://slashdot.org/pollBooth.pl?qid=1974&aid=-1
11:48:01 <phenny> [bjoern]: Slashdot Poll | When We Finally Meet Aliens, They ...
11:49:47 <sbp> turn out to have much silkier hair than we do
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11:50:06 <[bjoern]> Where?
11:51:41 <sbp> http://altjapan.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341bfd2253ef0134801e2579970c-320wi
11:52:13 <[bjoern]> probably no hair there at all
11:52:14 <sbp> [bjoern]: http://www.mrwiggleslovesyou.com/comics/rehab562.jpg
11:52:17 <sbp> see middle and end panels
11:52:35 <[bjoern]> I like "Real-like head"
11:53:17 <[bjoern]> "It's like he's inside my body!"
11:54:27 <[bjoern]> "doing alien" good be an acceptable concept.
11:55:32 *** sbp changed the topic to: "Doing Alien"
11:59:09 <[bjoern]> "Or maybe we crack the biological code that causes us to age and die. That is almost certainly an easier problem than FTL."
11:59:19 <[bjoern]> "BTW, our first contact with aliens will most probably Borg-like mixtures of biological and artificial parts. You don't need a singularity to predict that; we already have pacemakers, implanted hearing aids and artificial limbs"
12:00:01 <sbp> perhaps Bill Gates is our first alien contact?
12:01:01 <[bjoern]> So you expect "Nerds with silky hair" then
12:01:59 <sbp> and porn
12:02:27 <[bjoern]> Yeah but that's not noteworthy in your case.
12:02:46 <[bjoern]> "We're aliens! Hasn't Tom Cruise taught you people anything? Ya'll are never going to advance your Theta levels."
12:03:07 <[bjoern]> "They'll be in Arizona illegally. But now we're ready for them."
12:07:32 <[bjoern]> "Most probably we will be poisonous for the aliens."
12:07:44 <[bjoern]> That's good propaganda, in a way.
12:10:36 <sbp> cf. War of the Worlds
12:11:45 <[bjoern]> "If the aliens are as irrational as we are, there will be a market for original earth stuff, just as there would be a market on earth for original alien art."
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12:14:32 <[bjoern]> I do wonder, if extra solar aliens come and visit us, will we still consider martians aliens?
12:16:31 <[bjoern]> "Hell, the first aliens we meet could even be some douchbag religious zealots, kinda like cosmic pilgrims on a faster than light mayflower."
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12:24:46 <[bjoern]> "My bet is that a bored teenager will make the breakthrough tinkering in his parent's basement. A pocket device that enables quantum space shifting or some such thing. And once he stops using it to sneak into the girls shower room maybe he'll realize he just made Star Trek possible."
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12:25:24 <[bjoern]> (... and continue. probably)
12:25:53 <sbp> .gc ALTAVISTAVISION
12:25:54 <phenny> ALTAVISTAVISION: 3
12:25:59 <[bjoern]> Could conduct some research which trek had the hottest aliens
12:26:06 <[bjoern]> qualitatively and quantitatively.
12:26:20 <[bjoern]> a vista vision?
12:30:42 <[bjoern]> .gcs +lolometer +lolmeter
12:30:44 <phenny> +lolometer (61), +lolmeter (29)
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12:32:47 <sbp> .gc +lolsmeter
12:32:48 <phenny> +lolsmeter: 0
12:34:10 <archels> Seven of Nine, no contest
12:34:40 <[bjoern]> I'd like to research, if you are going to make a time capsule that's supposed to outlast humankind/earth, and only could fill it with text and still pictures, what proposal for what it should contain would stirr up the most controversy.
12:35:12 <archels> anthrax
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12:54:19 <[bjoern]> .gc "spacefaring microbes"
12:54:20 <phenny> "spacefaring microbes": 0
12:57:43 <archels> panspermia: fact or fiction?
13:05:45 <[bjoern]> .wik List of recurring non-human, non-robot characters from Futurama
13:05:46 <phenny> "This is a list of characters appearing in Futurama." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recurring_non-human,_non-robot_characters_from_Futurama
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13:44:49 <[bjoern]> "Jaroslaw Kaczynski, twin brother of Poland's former president who was killed in a plane crash in Russia, hopes to be elected in his place."
13:45:12 <[bjoern]> phenny, tell sbp http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8643375.stm
13:45:12 <phenny> [bjoern]: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
13:47:34 <[bjoern]> interesting picture, and that they omitted the caption http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/8644120.stm
13:51:38 <archels> "and he has two children"
13:51:46 <archels> nice euphemism for saying he's getting some!
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13:56:30 <sbp> she might have used fertility treatment
13:56:34 <sbp> or they might have adopted
13:56:44 <sbp> or heck, she might have just slept around
13:56:47 <sbp> etc. etc.
13:57:55 <[bjoern]> The children could be cylons.
14:03:56 <Arnia> What is the date today?
14:04:09 <[bjoern]> Depends on location.
14:04:19 <[bjoern]> .t
14:04:20 <phenny> Mon, 26 Apr 2010 14:04:20 GMT
14:04:23 <Arnia> In the US
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14:05:02 <Arnia> I'm reading a wikipedia page that says that an episode of a TV programme has an airdate of the 27th, yet it has a reception section filled out
14:05:11 <archels> Hm, doesn't the UK do daylight savings?
14:05:25 <Arnia> We're on BST at the moment
14:05:42 <[bjoern]> Yeah well reviewers often get to watch pre-screenings.
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14:06:29 <archels> Arnia: Right, I guess that doesn't affect GMT.
14:06:34 <sbp> .t sbp
14:06:35 <phenny> Mon Apr 26 15:06:35 BST 2010
14:06:47 <Arnia> .t Arnia
14:06:47 <phenny> Arnia: Sorry, I don't know about the 'Arnia' timezone.
14:06:53 <Arnia> shocker
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14:40:06 <[bjoern]> [ this comment is awaiting moderation ]
14:40:12 <[bjoern]> [ this comment is awaiting moderation ]
14:40:19 <[bjoern]> [ this comment is awaiting moderation ]
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15:14:18 <[bjoern]> hmm http://www.google.com/trends?q=intercourse
15:14:45 <[bjoern]> http://www.google.com/trends?q=masturbation
15:15:55 <[bjoern]> "love" periodically peaks around 14th feb, it would seem
15:16:25 <[bjoern]> hookers also way down
15:18:05 <[bjoern]> so is oral sex
15:18:56 <[bjoern]> http://www.google.com/trends?q=iraq%2Cpregnant
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15:24:16 <[bjoern]> summer and christmas are wikipedia's enemies, it would seem http://www.google.com/trends?q=wikipedia
15:25:45 <[bjoern]> "blog" appears to have peaked...
15:26:15 <[bjoern]> "fetish" also more than halved
15:31:04 <[bjoern]> fierce battle there http://google.com/trends?q=male%2Cfemale
15:32:10 <[bjoern]> http://google.com/trends?q=younger+men%2C+older+men
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15:39:11 <[bjoern]> hmm declining search volume by increasing news references http://www.google.com/trends?q=256
15:41:02 <[bjoern]> http://www.google.com/trends?q=2010%2C2009%2C2008%2C2007%2C2006
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15:46:29 <[bjoern]> http://www.google.com/trends?q=html%2Cpenis
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15:58:40 <[bjoern]> http://www.google.com/trends?q=music%2Cmovie
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15:59:51 <Monty> it's panni_!
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16:02:24 <[bjoern]> http://www.google.com/trends?q=prime+number is interesting
16:08:37 <[bjoern]> "It's official: George W. Bush's entry into the ranks of presidential memoirs will be released Nov. 9."
16:08:49 <[bjoern]> bad choice on the date there
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16:11:00 <Monty> hi kpreid
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16:16:54 <jsled> I'm really curious how that's going to play out.
16:17:21 <jsled> what sort of bombshells are being lined up to try to influence the mid-term elections at the last minute.
16:23:53 <jsled> … which are a week before the release, not the same day as I'd guessed.
16:25:27 <[bjoern]> Traditionally you get bits and pieces from the press as they see fit, without you being able to go to the source.
16:26:31 <jsled> right. and that'll still happen, as bits get leaked even a week before.
16:28:00 <[bjoern]> You'd wonder if he drew the book himself, or if it has words in it.
16:28:18 <jsled> probably ghost-drawn
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16:56:39 <alabd> there are some questions that humble can not ask in public would anyone guide in private ?
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18:12:08 <[bjoern]> .title http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/specials/rich_list/article7107299.ece
18:12:09 <phenny> [bjoern]: The Sunday Times Rich List 2010: fortunes of super-rich soar by a third - Sunday Times Rich List
18:15:51 <[bjoern]> "A Porn-Magazine Editor Tells All"- http://www.cosmopolitan.com/advice/confessions/confessions-of-a-porn-magazine-editor?src=rss
18:15:53 <[bjoern]> "She\rquote s seen nude chick parades and catfights between centerfolds, but wait till you hear what really shocked her."
18:19:30 <thelsdj> what did really shock her?
18:19:46 <[bjoern]> I'm waiting for someone to take the bait and tell us.
18:23:56 <thelsdj> "The most shocking thing was when a model strode up to my desk and asked me if I thought her labia looked lopsided. Before I could say a word, she had pulled down her skirt and underwear and exposed herself."
18:24:48 <[bjoern]> Well that's rather disappointing.
18:25:28 <thelsdj> yes
18:26:09 <[bjoern]> "The streaming rental industry is getting ever more crowded, and now it's going to have to make room for at least one more. YouTube has seemingly launched an streaming rental service, offering movies and television shows for anywhere from 99 cents to $3.99."
18:26:20 <[bjoern]> Oh yeah, pay to get youtube-quality videos.
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18:30:44 <alabd> what is this topic about ?
18:31:14 <jsled> Alien. and Doing.
18:33:24 <jsled> Whether or not you add a wink and a nod to that is up to you.
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19:16:58 <alabd> is not about hacking and security ?
19:17:55 <Arnia> alabd: see http://swhack.com/
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19:52:12 <KragenSitaker> I just learned about this book: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HypnerotomachiaPoliphili0018.jpg
19:52:16 <KragenSitaker> oos
19:52:17 <KragenSitaker> oops
19:52:24 <KragenSitaker> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnerotomachia_Poliphili
19:53:03 <KragenSitaker> I wish I could find higher-resolution scans of it
19:53:43 <clsn> It's the origin of the Poliphilus typeface.
19:53:50 <clsn> Used with Blado as an italic.
19:55:15 <[bjoern]> Google comes up empty at 4 MP +
19:55:57 <[bjoern]> unless there are elaborate drawings in the book, then there might be some.
19:56:05 <clsn> http://mitpress.mit.edu/e-books/HP/hyp000.htm has the scans, but not high-rez.
19:56:58 <KragenSitaker> I think it's not too much of an exaggeration to say it's the origin of the Roman typeface as we know it today, right?
19:57:02 <[bjoern]> checked the internet archive?
19:57:06 <KragenSitaker> yeah
19:57:07 <clsn> http://www.rarebookroom.org/Control/colhyp/index.html
19:57:18 <KragenSitaker> they have a lovely book of facsimiles of the woodcuts
19:57:19 <clsn> KragenSitaker: Not *all* the typeface, no.
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19:57:36 <KragenSitaker> clsn: what do you mean?
19:57:53 <clsn> There were a lot of faces based on the classic 15th-century types, cut by people like Aldo, Garamond, Jensen, etc.
19:58:54 <clsn> Poliphilus is *one* of them. As a "resurrection" of the original, it actually shows a sort of earlier stage in the development of the art, as the designers included a lot of the ink crush in the shapes rather than paring it back to the base form.
19:59:27 <clsn> So it looks a little indistinct to the careful reader. Not a bad thing, but a feature of the face.
19:59:52 <clsn> This is not the oldest extant printed book, nor the oldest extant roman face.
20:00:22 <clsn> The "origin" of the roman typeface as we know it stems from neo-Humanistic writing styles of... I think a few centuries earlier.
20:00:25 <KragenSitaker> it's far from the oldest extant printed book
20:00:48 <clsn> Yes, there are still copies of the Gutenberg bible floating around.
20:00:59 <KragenSitaker> but it's not in a Roman typeface
20:01:10 <clsn> No, it isn't. But this isn't the oldest Roman face either.
20:01:19 <KragenSitaker> what is?
20:01:37 <KragenSitaker> this was printed by Aldo, and his punchcutter was trained by Jensen
20:01:57 <KragenSitaker> but I haven't yet been able to find books printed by Jensen in a Roman (rather than blackletter) face
20:02:12 <clsn> Yeah, I know. Jensen did his own punchcutting too. Hm, I know one of my books has a picture ofthe earliest known roman face...
20:03:53 <KragenSitaker> and Garamond was 19 when that book was printed
20:03:56 <clsn> lessee, here's a picture of a roman face by Jensen in 1475...
20:04:24 <clsn> and also a shot of 15-century humanist hand, which was the basis for them...
20:04:35 <KragenSitaker> ooooh
20:04:51 <KragenSitaker> yeah, I know about the humanist book hands
20:05:16 <clsn> De Ætna, the book on which Bembo was based, from 1495
20:05:30 <KragenSitaker> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jenson_1475_venice_laertius.png has a specimen of Jenson's type from 1475
20:06:02 <KragenSitaker> What's that mark after Xanthũq?
20:06:41 <clsn> durnit, what was their name? Sweynheim? Something like that? They have some of the earliest known samples of roman faces.
20:07:16 <clsn> That is... I don't know the name of it; I think they DO finally have it in Unicode. It is the reason "ounce" is abbreviated oz. and "vidilicet(?)" is viz.
20:07:20 <clsn> Because it looks like a z.
20:07:53 <clsn> .u ꝫ
20:07:53 <phenny> U+A76B (No name found)
20:07:53 <Monty> "you"
20:08:05 <clsn> I believe that's the one. LATIN SMALL LETTER ET it is called in Unicode.
20:09:35 <clsn> afaik the "first" italic has never been digitized, tho some early ones have been (often modified to accord with their Roman counterparts. When they were cut they didn't have counterparts; Italics were more independent then)
20:09:59 <clsn> phenny's Unicode tables are behind the times.
20:10:30 <KragenSitaker> Right, Manutius printed whole books in them
20:10:39 <KragenSitaker> I like Jenson's diamond-shaped colon-points and periods.
20:11:24 <KragenSitaker> It's hard to tell the difference from U+A76A
20:11:39 <KragenSitaker> oh, because that's the capital version :)
20:12:07 <clsn> Tho there was no such thing as capital italics back then either. Manutius used upright roman caps. Using caps in that manner is called "Aldine" I think.
20:12:44 <clsn> Goudy has diamond-shapes points (MUCH more modern font). It's pretty, though I think it starts to look prickly after a while.
20:13:25 <KragenSitaker> all of http://canonical.org/~kragen/tmp/anami.html looks a little prickly still
20:13:44 <clsn> Jensen's are very strong and powerful. Goudy even has diamonds for the dot on the i.
20:16:25 <KragenSitaker> Jenson's here seems to have stroke contrast of a little over 3:1
20:16:51 <KragenSitaker> at more or less 45°
20:17:04 <KragenSitaker> hey, I learned about the Romain du Roi only a couple of weeks ago
20:17:08 <KragenSitaker> that was pretty mindblowing
20:17:29 <clsn> Stroke contrast back then was fairly low. They didn't have the tech to make really really thin lines that didn't break.
20:17:46 <clsn> One of the characteristics of "Modern" faces is really high stroke contrast.
20:17:59 <KragenSitaker> yeah
20:18:15 <KragenSitaker> I tried really high stroke contrast in Anami, like 10:1
20:18:21 <KragenSitaker> and it's not working well
20:18:59 <clsn> It takes getting used to in the Romantic faces too. And Anami is very much a "written"-looking face, not a normal Roman.
20:19:04 <KragenSitaker> I've scaled back down to 6:1 and that seems to be okay
20:19:49 <KragenSitaker> () and the like don't disappear, whether in black-or-white or in white-on-black
20:20:13 <KragenSitaker> at 6:1
20:20:55 <KragenSitaker> Anami will probably get a bit less witten-looking, but yes, the underlying motive is to try to make a Roman font that manifests wabi-sabi
20:21:54 <KragenSitaker> obviously you can't call Jenson's work "modernist" but it does display a tendency toward geometric forms and uniformity that you never see in, say, Chinese calligraphy
20:22:11 <KragenSitaker> and not that often in Chinese fonts
20:23:19 <clsn> Yes. Even the early fonts were definitely not looking like someone just sat down and wrote them. There are hints at writing, but there is a difference between "handwriting" fonts and ordinary book fonts.
20:23:39 <clsn> "Modern" wrt a font means something different altogether, though, and Jensen is an anti-example for that.
20:24:26 <clsn> For a "Modern" font, look at something Didot or Bodoni or some such, for example.
20:24:51 <KragenSitaker> right, but the undercurrent of Platonism that eventually manifested in things like Optima is clearly visible in Jenson's work
20:25:11 <KragenSitaker> compare to, say, Heisei Mincho
20:25:57 <clsn> Yes. There is a trend visible from the very beginning toward a more "mechanical" or "perfect"-looking letter.
20:26:33 <KragenSitaker> right. and so I'm trying to figure out what a Roman type that didn't do that would look like.
20:26:49 <KragenSitaker> But starting with a wide-nibbed pen, not a brush.
20:27:03 <KragenSitaker> So the idea is not to produce a "handwriting" or "novelty" font
20:27:24 <KragenSitaker> but something that can be read clearly and easily, even at small point sizes
20:27:26 <clsn> Look for some humanist handwriting too.
20:27:54 <clsn> There are some nice handwriting-influenced faces... damn, what are they again? I know Gudrun Zapf-van Hesse made one...
20:28:19 <clsn> http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/urw/alcuin/familytree.html
20:28:30 <clsn> Alcuin. That actually looks a little like what you're evolving towards.
20:29:39 <clsn> There was another one I was remembering but I can't remember its name; it also looks like Alcuin.
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20:31:07 <clsn> Huh. Myfonts seems to treat Alcuin as an uncial font. When you click "fonts like this" you get a lot of uncials.
20:31:57 <KragenSitaker> it does, yes
20:32:23 <clsn> http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/flat-it/agedage-caroline/ claims to be along similar lines (I have not seen it before this)
20:34:07 <Arnia> Hm... http://xkcdexplained.com/
20:34:12 <KragenSitaker> well, but it's just intended to be a Carolingian minuscule, no?
20:35:16 <Arnia> And then, because one level is never enough, http://xkcdexplainedexplained.tumblr.com/
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20:35:36 <KragenSitaker> oh, I'm glad to see xkcd explained explained
20:35:46 <KragenSitaker> xkcd explained was getting tiresome
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20:35:58 <clsn> Well, yeah. But that is sort of the basis for a lot of the others.
20:36:06 <KragenSitaker> clsn: those are gorgeous fonts, thanks for the implied compliment ;)
20:36:17 <KragenSitaker> I have a long way to go to get to that level
20:36:24 <clsn> And those can sort of bridge the gap between handwriting and printing, which is what yu seem to be striving for.
20:36:41 <clsn> heh. I still have to make a non-repulsive book font someday. Someday.
20:37:03 <clsn> My Marin font achieved its goal of not making the reader want to vomit. Now to set my sights higher.
20:37:56 <clsn> mm... myfonts has a point, including Palatino in the list. Palatino has a "painted" look to it.
20:38:37 <Arnia> I feel xkcdexplained is horribly superior sounding in tone
20:38:50 <Arnia> beyond the point where it is funny
20:40:10 <KragenSitaker> I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who feels that way
20:40:22 <KragenSitaker> Marin? Did you publish it?
20:41:28 <KragenSitaker> I don't know. My basic insight was that lots of people love Papyrus and Comic Sans, while actual designers hate them like the plague
20:41:57 <KragenSitaker> and that computer user interfaces in general are very, very modernist and not at all wabi-sabi
20:42:01 <Arnia> I'm working towards the development of time travel for precisely that reason
20:42:19 <Arnia> to go back in time and kill the inventor of comic sans... paradoxes be damned
20:42:36 <clsn> Marin is on my website.
20:42:37 <Arnia> the end of causality is a small price to pay
20:42:50 <clsn> http://web.meson.org/ look under "writing" and "fonts" or something, there'll be a link.
20:43:54 <Arnia> http://www.explainxkcd.com/
20:44:01 <Arnia> Ok, this is getting a bit silly...
20:44:01 <KragenSitaker> see, I don't mind Comic Sans
20:44:08 <KragenSitaker> it's very vernacular
20:44:13 <KragenSitaker> but I don't mind vernacular things
20:44:38 <Arnia> I hate comic sans because it has no elegance or flow... it is a font that screams out to be noticed
20:44:51 <KragenSitaker> when I'm reading comic books, I never stop to complain about how terribly gaudy the lettering is
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20:45:13 <Arnia> KragenSitaker: but it *isn't* hand-drawn
20:45:18 <KragenSitaker> yes, it's gaudy. it's vernacular. it's not trying to be tasteful or elegant. does everything have to be tasteful and elegant?
20:45:23 <Arnia> and somehow that is very very obvious
20:45:41 <Arnia> it looks more artificial than, say, Univers
20:45:50 <KragenSitaker> what do you think of anami?
20:46:01 <Arnia> eh, not convinced
20:46:11 <Arnia> I'd use it in some things, but definitely not a terminal
20:46:43 <clsn> Yeah, I'm not seeing Anami as a terminal font either.
20:47:03 <clsn> It's halfway to a script. Code looks wrong in that.
20:47:47 <KragenSitaker> Marin reminds me of another font I sometimes use in terminals
20:47:55 <KragenSitaker> although the terminals are not well-suited to it!
20:48:21 <KragenSitaker> Essays1743
20:48:26 <clsn> Yeah, Marin isn't a good terminal font either.
20:48:40 <clsn> It has really high stroke contrast also, you'll notice.
20:48:52 <KragenSitaker> it does, yes
20:49:24 <clsn> A lot of the fun of Marin is wide-coverage. Has a big bite of the BMP (but no Han!)
20:49:27 <KragenSitaker> the high contrast and vertical stress are nicely incongruous with the small x-height
20:49:48 <clsn> Yeah. Tho modern faces don't ALWAYS have big x-height do they?
20:49:50 <KragenSitaker> and some other nearly-Antiqua features
20:50:28 <KragenSitaker> the old-style numerals and the shape of the question mark
20:50:40 <KragenSitaker> are a couple of things that call out to me
20:51:31 <clsn> Heh. Yeah, I was having fun with theold-style numerals. There are lining figures somewhere in the font too.
20:51:59 <KragenSitaker> I have a not-very-wabi-sabi obsession with readability
20:52:06 <KragenSitaker> although that's perhaps necessary for a coding font
20:52:14 <KragenSitaker> so I used old-style numerals
20:52:27 <KragenSitaker> I'm thinking about adding descenders on the right side of the h, n, and m
20:52:54 <KragenSitaker> which I've seen a couple of times in handwriting by some French or Belgian people
20:53:01 <KragenSitaker> the descender space is grossly underutilized
20:54:11 <clsn> Might be helpful in distinguishing things... Maybe NO descender on the m, or something like that, so that rn and m have different sillhouettes.
20:54:12 <Monty> TIM-15
20:55:25 <KragenSitaker> oh, hmm, interesting idea
20:55:44 <KragenSitaker> although in monospace, rn and m have pretty different silhouettes; one is twice as wide!
20:56:13 <KragenSitaker> another monospace font that draws heavily on script is Monaco
20:57:09 <KragenSitaker> it seems to be very popular, despite occasional complaints about its readability, but in part that may be because it's come preinstalled on Macintoshes for a quarter-century (and originally as one of a very small selection of fonts, and the only monospace option)
20:58:17 <clsn> yeah, monospace does change things. But stuff like that, to increase distinguishability between oft-confused letters or combinations.
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21:07:20 <KragenSitaker> yeah
21:07:27 <KragenSitaker> hi kpreid
21:07:30 <KragenSitaker> congratulations on your new job!
21:07:45 <kpreid> thank you
21:08:15 <kpreid> preparing for it is being very procrastinative when mixed up with my last semester at this college
21:08:50 <kpreid> so you remind me to work on that :)
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21:34:56 <KragenSitaker> there's a higher-resolution facsimile at http://diglib.hab.de/wdb.php?dir=inkunabeln/13-1-eth-2f
21:35:04 <KragenSitaker> of Hypnerotomachia Poliphili
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21:36:12 <KragenSitaker> and another at http://www.rarebookroom.org/Control/colhyp/index.html
21:36:49 <KragenSitaker> still nothing really large though
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