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00:26:30 <patbam> la
00:27:38 * patbam is happy to discover that there is such a thing as a timeupdate event
00:27:44 <patbam> A TIMEUPDATE EVENT, PEOPLE!
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01:45:33 <[bjoern]> phenny, tell sbp haha http://seclists.org/fulldisclosure/2010/Apr/430
01:45:34 <phenny> [bjoern]: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
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03:22:13 <[bjoern]> stunning http://support.microsoft.com/kb/900900 - cannot webdav > 50MB
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05:41:23 <yano> heh that's microsoft for ya
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16:14:59 *** [bjoern] changed the topic to: ""Spider-Man and Jedi knights join forces to foil comic book thief!" -- BBC News front page."
16:17:23 <[bjoern]> I like his point about immigration http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/election_2010/8659440.stm
16:17:29 <[bjoern]> .title
16:17:31 <phenny> [bjoern]: BBC News - Brown is 'worst PM ever'
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18:07:34 <treed> .u ɥ
18:07:34 <phenny> U+0265 LATIN SMALL LETTER TURNED H (ɥ)
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18:22:47 * jessica laughs.
18:22:58 <jessica> https://twitter.com/shitmydadsays/status/9792541776
18:23:05 <jessica> "Science and Mother Nature are in a marriage where Science is always surprised to come home and find Mother Nature blowing the neighbor."
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20:13:42 <BigJibby> .title
20:13:43 <phenny> BigJibby: BBC News - Brown is 'worst PM ever'
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20:25:20 <Arnia> ... until Cameron takes over
20:25:36 <Arnia> (good grief, I am so incensed by this election...)
20:28:18 <BigJibby> move to belgium
20:30:34 <Arnia> Out of the frying pan...
20:31:59 <Arnia> you have Clegg trying to force what I consider to be dangerous constitutional reforms, Cameron unable to control his party with a front-bench of old mates and an alleged plot to break the constitution and you have Brown with his belligerence and a party really controlled by the Dark Lord Mandelson
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20:44:06 <m4rk> election smelection
20:45:07 <m4rk> brown should drag thatcher out by the hair and punish her for what she did, while he's still go the chance
20:46:21 * jessica finds it very amusing that all her British friends care about an election now.
20:50:21 <Arnia> I always care about elections
20:50:33 <Arnia> I even stay up all night with local ones
20:52:39 * BigJibby calls an election for the Starship Commander of Swhack
20:54:31 <m4rk> BigJibby: is that first past the post?
20:55:04 * jessica would be more interested in finding the Mos Eisley cantina.
20:55:34 <Arnia> I still prefer FPTP to PR
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20:56:00 <Arnia> Whilst PR is 'fairer' nationally, I don't think it is *better*
20:56:28 <BigJibby> m4rk, I dunno. If I understood your question maybe I would now know what you asked later?
20:56:30 <Arnia> and all the AV systems I've seen (including the ones I've used in elections I've run) have sucked
20:56:39 <Arnia> .wik First Past The Post
20:56:39 <phenny> "The plurality voting system is a single-winner voting system often used to elect executive officers or to elect members of a legislative assembly which is based on single-member constituencies." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Past_The_Post
20:58:00 <BigJibby> winner-takes-all. yes. and I have a map to Mos Eisley cantina.
20:59:20 <m4rk> I prefer being able to vote for the person I want to, without having to risk wasting a vote
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21:01:34 <[bjoern]> Do you want to be their Number One?
21:02:34 <BigJibby> actually, it will be a tournament system. the first preliminary vote will determine the standings, by number of votes, then alphabetically by last name. There will then be a challenge phase, where any contender may challenge another, which has not been already challenged, to a staring competition.
21:03:08 <BigJibby> Then the tournament will begin, where 1st seed plays last, 2nd plays 2nd last, and so on, in a sword fight to the death until a winner triumphs.
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21:03:16 <Arnia> m4rk: good luck with that... no system really allows that by the nature of the problem
21:03:53 <BigJibby> of coarse, there can only be one true swhack overload to rule over itself.
21:04:02 <Arnia> m4rk: and I prefer having an effective parliament (rather than a permanently hung one) and a strong constituency system to having a centralised voting system
21:04:05 <BigJibby> s/oa/ou
21:04:31 <Arnia> My big beef is with the whips and the party system
21:04:57 <Arnia> the problem in my mind is more that parties have too much power as a bloc
21:05:21 <m4rk> so you like the system but not the outcome? interesting
21:05:22 <Arnia> That can be solved in many ways, some of which don't have the downsides that PR does
21:05:30 <m4rk> hopefully there will be a referendum on it
21:05:47 <Arnia> and of course it will be so informed
21:06:05 * Arnia thinks we may have to adopt one of the democratic models that requires poor information
21:07:07 <Arnia> The problem is that it isn't a single little issue... this is actually one of the big problems with direct democratic methods like referenda
21:07:37 <Arnia> and a referendum on whether to stay with FPTP or move to PR would be badly informed, easily swayed by emotion, and poorly conceived
21:07:56 <Arnia> There are simply too many consequences for the majority of people to consider
21:08:39 <Arnia> Direct democracy only works with an engaged population on issues which are small enough to consider from all angles whilst still getting on with a day job
21:09:33 <[bjoern]> .t ET
21:09:34 <phenny> [bjoern]: Sorry, I don't know about the 'ET' timezone.
21:09:50 <m4rk> it would be nice to see an example of a country that fits that model
21:10:33 * Arnia tries to be a pragmatist about these things
21:11:00 <Arnia> I became a lot more cynical about the nature of democratic decision making after being a returning officer
21:11:39 <Arnia> It is too easy for people to claim it as a panacea for a set of social and administrative ills which are a lot harder to grasp
21:11:51 <Arnia> after all, isn't it obvious that democracy=better?
21:12:02 <jessica> No.
21:12:11 <Arnia> and more votes=more democracy so more votes = better++
21:12:38 <Arnia> which is generally the point I bring out the influence the media (particularly the Sun) has on elections
21:13:07 <Arnia> and the post-rationalisation nature of human decision making, particularly in deadlined decisions like ballots
21:16:30 <Arnia> I'm not saying democracy is necessarily bad... just that it, like all political methods, needs to be used with caution and discretion rather than blindly applied
21:24:53 <[bjoern]> Pointers to quick and dirty html screen scraping stuffs in python?
21:25:07 <[bjoern]> sbp? nslater?
21:25:56 <sbp> BeautifulSoup, which is shit
21:26:00 <sbp> or lxml, which is even more shit
21:26:20 <sbp> or use regexp, which is what I do
21:26:33 <[bjoern]> code samples would be nice;
21:27:54 <[bjoern]> hrmm I probably need some dom-ish stuff, at least that'd make it easier
21:28:41 <[bjoern]> or actually... it could let the server do some fetching, and then use client-side xslt maybe
21:29:19 <[bjoern]> wonder if Opera supports js-extension functions there
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21:31:30 <[bjoern]> not looking like it
21:33:44 <Arnia> [bjoern] send me your email address
21:34:08 <Arnia> [bjoern]: I have written two command line python script that work using CSS selectors
21:34:27 <Arnia> haven't packaged them up with docs to publish yet though... but I'll email them to you
21:34:37 <[bjoern]> uuh creepy; I do recall us talking about that the other day thouhg
21:34:46 <[bjoern]> I'll have a look, thanks
21:34:47 <Arnia> they work quite well; I've used them for a few IE tasks
21:35:36 <[bjoern]> I'll use DOM Level 3 XPath and document proxying to circumvent same origin restrictions for now though I think
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21:42:16 <Arnia> Just wrote sparse docs
21:42:26 <Arnia> but contact me if you need any assistance
21:42:33 <Arnia> Like I said, they work quite well
21:42:43 <[bjoern]> got them
21:43:14 <Arnia> at least for my usecases
21:43:33 <Arnia> they're a bit rough and ready but they're good enough for quick information extraction problems
21:43:47 <Arnia> (like getting geocoding out of wikipedia, which is why I wrote them)
21:44:17 <[bjoern]> You smuggled bash code in!
21:44:52 <[bjoern]> Oh yeah I was thinking about that the other day, pick a couple of users, georef their edits, and heatmap them on a world map
21:45:04 <Arnia> The resty library is a helper I've found useful
21:45:21 <Arnia> take it or leave it... you can use curl directly of course :)
21:46:31 <[bjoern]> I will do a bit of both!
21:47:28 <Arnia> When I have time, I'm currently hacking together an Automator action to do this a bit neater
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23:09:43 <[bjoern]> .c 6 months in weeks
23:09:44 <phenny> 6 months = 26.0887285 weeks
23:17:14 <[bjoern]> .c 6 months in days
23:17:15 <phenny> 6 months = 182.621099 days
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23:24:21 <[bjoern]> .c days in a month
23:24:22 <phenny> 1 month = 30.4368499 days
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