00:00:10 <tommorris> Now I do Scala, I feel lost without optional type declarations.
00:00:49 *** tav (~tav@2001:0:53aa:64c:0:368d:b16c:51c) has joined #swhack
00:01:14 * libby gives a weak cheer for thornbury
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00:05:52 <jessica> So, did any of you vote for the People's Popular Front of Judea?
00:06:05 <tommorris> TRAITERS!
00:06:13 <jessica> no, no. Splitters.
00:06:26 <[bjoern]> Do you mean the People's Front of Judea?
00:06:47 <tommorris> What have the Government ever done for us?
00:07:27 <tommorris> I mean, beside making the railways marginally more expensive to use and started two wars in faraway places...?
00:07:41 <tommorris> <meekly> ...the Digital Economy Act?
00:11:07 <jessica> The Falklands?
00:11:19 <jessica> The loss of India via salt?
00:11:32 <jessica> The loss of the United States via tea?
00:13:47 <tommorris> Dumping all those awkward Puritans on the natives was a bit of a culture shock, but I think it was probably all for the best... for the rest of us.
00:16:37 <jsled> Anyone for the Popular People's Front, though?
00:18:37 <[bjoern]> "For the Pirates, more than any other party, every single vote counts. It does not make much difference if Labour, Conservatives or Liberal Democrats win or lose by 5000 votes or 5001, but adding just one vote to the Pirates will really make a difference. Every extra fraction of a percentage that we get, is a fraction of a percentage more parliamentary influence that we have over the next few years."
00:18:46 <[bjoern]> pretty desperate bunch you have over there
00:19:03 <tommorris> Pirate Party is totally fail-in-a-box.
00:19:41 <tommorris> Seriously. If all the people who are concerned about digital rights joined one of the existing parties, they could have a bigger influence.
00:20:11 <tommorris> I ran the numbers a while back: there are only something like 70,000 members of the LibDems. 20,000 people wrote to their MP about the Digital Economy Act.
00:20:16 <[bjoern]> They are the biggest party not in parliament over here, gaining 3% of the national vote in the last election.
00:20:41 <tommorris> Say 10,000 of them are broadly on the left - if they were to join the LibDems, they could basically set LibDem policy on their interests.
00:20:56 <tommorris> Say the other 10,000 swing towards the right, they could join the Tories and do similarly.
00:21:52 <[bjoern]> influence within one party is very different from getting people to vote for you though
00:22:08 <tommorris> Rather than starting up a protest vote party, getting into the main parties and attempting to influence their decision making process seems like a much easier way to get the change you want.
00:31:41 <[bjoern]> "there were no erroneous trades on shares of Procter & Gamble or in any other shares at the New York Stock Exchange on Thursday, said Eric Ryan, a spokesman for the exchange"
00:33:40 <[bjoern]> I like the ... security guy in the background
00:34:44 <jsled> .g "land is power"
00:34:45 <phenny> jsled: http://www.landlesspeasants.org/
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00:44:40 <sbp> I'm going to claim that turnout would have reached 70%
00:44:44 <sbp> if people were allowed to vote
00:44:59 <[bjoern]> which'd still be rather pityful
00:49:05 <tommorris> in Belgium, turnout for EU elections is >90%
00:49:34 <[bjoern]> And they don't get a government out of it.
00:57:22 <jessica> wait, what's this pirate party's platform? alliance with somalia?
00:58:11 <[bjoern]> poll booty.
00:58:24 <jsled> It's more superficial. Eyepatches for all! Yarrr-lternative educational oparrtunities.
00:59:19 <nslater> yo
00:59:34 <nslater> still here sbp?
01:00:18 <sbp> yeah
01:00:28 <sbp> not for much longer
01:01:44 <nslater> summary of your thoughts? on my phone, not been here all night but been watching the coverage
01:03:02 * libby also fading
01:03:17 <sbp> summary, hmm
01:03:25 <sbp> 10% of seats returned
01:04:21 <tommorris> Gordon Brown keeps his seat.
01:04:48 <sbp> exit poll is crazy, swings are all over the place, there are the Millibands quibbling the constitution, the Conservatives oddly quiet, seats which are being held on knife edges, Conservatives losing target seats, Brown looking like he's lost, Kirstie Allsopp noting that the Queen has said she'll wait until 1pm to receieve the prime minister
01:04:54 <nslater> the guy from land is power with his fist up wa making me chox
01:04:56 <sbp> kind of hard to give a summary out of all that
01:05:03 <sbp> except for, damn. this is a complex and messy one
01:05:08 <jsled> .g kirstie allsopp
01:05:09 <phenny> jsled: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirstie_Allsopp
01:05:24 <libby> torygirl
01:05:24 <sbp> but of course the big thing will be whether the conservatives simply reach 326
01:05:29 <sbp> att he moment, it's not at all clear
01:05:36 <tommorris> the exit polls and predictions suck. I'm no statistician and I could do better if I could.
01:05:50 <nslater> what is the crack with a co-govt?
01:05:51 <sbp> no, they usually suck
01:06:00 <nslater> is that like jointing forces?
01:06:03 <sbp> at the moment they're in a whole new domain of suck
01:06:14 <sbp> nslater: again, rumour mill unbelievably strong
01:06:27 <jsled> I easily misread from wp the program name as "Location, Location, Location, Relocation, Relocation", which seemed pretty excessive.
01:06:46 <nslater> is the result of lab and lib joint forces an actual org/govt thing? like a new party??
01:06:57 <tommorris> you just need to do large polls and *write down people's post codes when you poll them*. seriously. how difficult is it to get right?
01:07:08 <sbp> it will be a coalition
01:07:15 <sbp> coalitions can be formed on various terms
01:07:16 <nslater> which is?
01:07:27 <nslater> I'm confused what that means
01:07:29 <sbp> you won't know until the coalition is formed what the nature of it will be
01:07:33 <nslater> ok
01:07:37 <tommorris> working out the result of a 600+ local elections based on general statistics = way to fail, pollsters
01:07:53 <sbp> but note also that a labour-liberal coalition seems very dodgy
01:08:09 <nslater> why?
01:08:16 <sbp> because conservatives are posting swings between minority and majority
01:08:57 <sbp> so at the moment, you'd have to say they're probably going to end up with like 324 or something crazy like that, in which case I can imagine some very strange things happening in order to get those extra couple of seats, and some very heated arguments if Labour try to cling on using constitutional procedure
01:09:04 <sbp> I actually don't think they would
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01:09:08 <sbp> despite them being pretty crazy
01:09:25 <tommorris> my preference: lib > liblab > lab > libcon > labcon > con > con-dup-ukip
01:09:44 <nslater> "if someone comes nto this country, with no qualifications, who can't speak English, and they get your job on the first day - then maybe. your a bit shit" - my favourite quote of the night
01:09:48 <sbp> con-dup might not be on the cards now?
01:09:54 <sbp> how is con going in NI?
01:09:54 <jsled> hehe
01:09:57 <tommorris> not any more.
01:10:22 <sbp> okay, I'm out
01:10:24 <sbp> 'night!
01:10:33 <nslater> night!
01:10:38 <nslater> and thx
01:10:51 <tommorris> Ejection of Robinson - one of the few politicians in my shitlist top-10 - is a good start.
01:10:53 <tav> nn
01:11:01 <tommorris> seeya sbp
01:11:24 <nslater> yo tav
01:12:37 <tav> hey
01:14:31 <nslater> tav, idea
01:14:59 <nslater> remember my idea for the novel with the guy who dreams about a girl called maya
01:15:12 <nslater> I came up with an ending udea
01:15:18 <nslater> idea
01:15:33 <tav> oh?
01:17:28 <nslater> yeah, she wakes up and it was all her dream. and as readers were like "oh ffs" and she's like "whatever" then she gets up and goes to work, and everything happens exactly like it dies at the star of the story from his perspective, only she decides to say something
01:18:08 <nslater> ... presumably changing the course of events. like the whole thing was s premonition from his pov through her eyex
01:18:44 <nslater> sorry, on my phone hence worse than usual typing
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01:24:19 <tav> nice
01:24:30 <tav> and, no worries, i'm obsessing over the elections
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01:58:15 <[bjoern]> "The UK Independence Party are winning an average of 3% of the vote, and in seats where they stood in 2005 as well, are on average up by 1%."
01:59:06 <clsn> (so the UK wants independence?)
02:00:46 <[bjoern]> .wik UK Independence Party
02:00:47 <phenny> "The UK Independence Party (UKIP), (pronounced /ˈjuːkɪp/, YOO-kip) is a eurosceptic British political party." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_Independence_Party
02:00:56 <jsled> what is the position of the "Agent" being thanked in these declaration speaches
02:00:57 <jsled> ?
02:01:30 <[bjoern]> Not knowingly heard that so far
02:01:32 <jsled> Just, basically, the party operation-leader of the constituency?
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02:22:40 <[bjoern]> "The world may be on the brink of biological disaster after news that a third of US bee colonies did not survive the winter" - http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/may/02/food-fear-mystery-beehives-collapse
02:22:55 <[bjoern]> bees, flowers, storks, death.
02:23:07 <jsled> shit
02:30:38 <[bjoern]> blue now ahead of red for the first time
02:32:28 <jsled> indeed.
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03:12:41 <jsled> "And the bar's still open, which means there's still a lot of journalists around, as you might expect" — BBC
03:14:54 * [bjoern] nods
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03:24:03 <MoiraA> Oxford West: Conservative gain from Liberal Democrat
03:24:03 <MoiraA> [04:22] * E has changed the topic to: LAB 137 CON 178 LD 28 OTH 25 (368)
03:24:30 <MoiraA> [04:23] * E has changed the topic to: LAB 138 CON 179 LD 28 OTH 25 (370)
03:24:41 <MoiraA> 650 to come in in total
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05:32:30 * tommorris was right: 65% turnout
05:32:53 <tommorris> You never lose bets underestimating people.
05:37:57 * tommorris is very pissed off about Evan Harris losing his seat though.
06:51:22 <[bjoern]> phenny, tell sbp storklings.
06:51:22 <phenny> [bjoern]: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
07:29:40 * Arnia boings depressingly
07:29:40 <phenny> Arnia: 06 May 19:34Z <nslater> tell Arnia http://www.frontarmy.co.uk/news/logorama-kick-ass-short-film/
07:29:45 <phenny> Arnia: 06 May 21:31Z <sbp> tell Arnia 'When asked by Jeremy Paxman on BBC One how he'd feel about Labour doing a deal with the Lib Dems to stay in power, Lord Mandelson says "I have no problem in principle".' - but exit polls predict a labour + liberal coalition would not have a majority
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09:10:59 <[bjoern]> .gc 291+34
09:10:59 <phenny> 291+34: 8,730,000
09:11:04 <[bjoern]> .calc 291+34
09:11:06 <phenny> 291+34 = 325
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10:33:36 <archels> libdem :(
10:38:49 <tommorris> Letting the LibDems choose who to hand the poisoned chalice. Democracy for the reluctant.
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10:54:49 <archels> tommorris: heh. They'll probably end up making a lot of concessions though.
11:10:42 <sbp> storklings!
11:11:06 *** sbp changed the topic to: "<tommorris> You never lose bets underestimating people."
11:12:52 <sbp> "The fervent wish within Buckingham Palace will be that the political leaders can determine amongst themselves who is in the best position to command the support of the House of Commons."
11:13:03 <sbp> we may have a few days of MPs working out who should form the next government
11:13:25 <tommorris> My remark is, of course, a reference to H. L. Mencken: "No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."
11:15:58 <tommorris> The #ge2010 channel is pretty manageable now. The queue hovers around empty, no backlogs, no craziness.
11:16:23 <sbp> it is extremely distressing to see Clegg suggesting that Cameron should have first shot at forming a government
11:16:50 <sbp> when a lib-lab coalition would (if predictions are correct) have more seats than any reasonable con coalition
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11:18:00 <tommorris> Wowza: http://www.cps.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=381:the-need-for-reason&catid=23:prisons-and-addiction&Itemid=42
11:18:22 <tommorris> "A new Conservative Government's antennae need to be on alert from day one for the 'evidence based' and 'what works' justifications for Brown's bloated state and overreaching policies. ... Evidence is overrated."
11:18:53 <tommorris> Apparently, we need to balance what the evidence says with some good old-fashioned gut instinct.
11:19:16 <tommorris> Instincts are never wrong.
11:19:20 <sbp> ask any scientismist and they'll tell you otherwise
11:19:41 <sbp> all a liberal media conspiracy of course
11:19:50 <libby> that's quite alarming
11:20:46 <sbp> well thankfully the CPS isn't a prominent Conservative policy think tank
11:20:50 <sbp> so we should all be okay, right
11:21:01 <sbp> I mean there's lots of EVIDENCE that it's a prominent Conservative policy think tank
11:21:09 <sbp> but you need to be on the alert about this kind of stuff
11:22:31 <tommorris> perhaps we should set up a non-evidence-based IT contracting firm. we'd just write limericks and when the compiler complains that our limericks are not valid [$language] code, we can just say "evidence is over-rated" and trust our gut instinct.
11:22:55 <sbp> I find no evidence that this would work, so I say we should proceed
11:23:29 <tommorris> If the government then challenge us about our evidence-free waste of public money, we just point out how they are dogmatic scientistic absolutists stuck in a pre-post-modern worldview and bill them anyway.
11:24:32 <tommorris> I mean, seriously, has Kathy Gyngell seen Colbert's White House correspondents dinner speech?
11:28:26 <sbp> 'Former deputy leader of the Labour Party Lord Hattersley tells BBC World Service: "Most liberals, certainly outside the west of England, are radicals and they'll not forgive their leader for putting a Tory government in power".'
11:29:42 <sbp> heh, this is a pretty good point:
11:29:44 <sbp> 'Everyone is talking up the Lib Dems' kingmaker status. But shouldn't their abject performance, far below expectations, mean at least in principle that they should be deprived of that status? On that performance, Nick Clegg should be embarrassed to be the one deciding, in effect, who the next prime minister will be.'
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11:30:39 <sbp> <ge2010-bot> dimblebot: DIMBLEBOT PREDICTS NICK CLEGG WILL BE CHANCELLOR
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11:31:53 <tommorris> 'At least in principle'? In principle, we follow procedure, right? As if media chatter is going to change what Clegg does. (Oh, hold on.)
11:32:52 <tommorris> Game theory time: if you have a fucking crazy election system, why be principled? Just do whatever is likely to get your political ends.
11:33:30 <tommorris> The other parties aren't going to be principled. The electoral system isn't going to reward you for being principled. And by the time the next election rolls around, nobody will give a fuck.
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11:35:39 <tommorris> Unless the next election happens to be, I dunno, next Thursday - wouldn't surprise me.
11:40:14 <tommorris> RESPECT lose Bethnal Green and Bow to Labour. Discuss.
11:52:41 <[bjoern]> Not sure if http://pfalzstorch.blogspot.com/2010/05/ei-ei-ei-was-seh-ich-da.html are closeups
11:53:28 <[bjoern]> (tend to "no")
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12:21:08 <sbp> [bjoern]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mY72HOyxO0U
12:21:16 <[bjoern]> .title
12:21:17 <phenny> [bjoern]: YouTube - I BEAT SUPER MARIO BROS... WITH A DANCE PAD
12:21:31 <[bjoern]> I... will store that away for when I'm drunk
12:22:28 <sbp> .title http://www.dannychoo.com/post/en/25596/Mojibakeru.html
12:22:29 <phenny> sbp: Mojibakeru
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12:43:09 <sbp> Gordon Brown statement
12:46:54 <sbp> no ordinary statement
12:48:50 <libby> arse, I missed it, trying to rescure bird from the cats
12:48:53 <libby> what happened?
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12:49:30 <sbp> basically: Her Majesty's government is still operational; he understands Clegg wants to talk to Cameron first; he is open to speak to any party leader, and believes a coalition with LD will center on two policy areas, economy and change in the voting system
12:49:52 <libby> interestin'
12:49:59 <libby> (thanks)
12:50:09 <sbp> yw. sounds like a huge U-turn on the voting system
12:50:33 <sbp> so I think there's a certain amount of angling for lib-lab here
12:54:14 <sbp> Dimbleby: "sounds as though it's going to be quite a long game"
12:56:06 <sbp> Jon Sopel notes that since Clegg made the statement at 11:30 nobody's said a thing, suspects there are strict orders going out not to talk
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12:57:21 <sbp> Buckingham!
12:57:23 <sbp> Bercow wins!
12:57:29 <sbp> easy, by miles
12:57:52 <sbp> SPKR win, heh
13:00:05 <sbp> there's a lot of confusion about Clegg's statement
13:00:19 <sbp> whether e.g. it encompasses a Conservative minority government
13:01:08 <sbp> LD and Con commentators say Brown's offer of a PR referendum is "desperate"
13:01:27 <[bjoern]> aww poor britons no longer like their election simulation procedures?
13:02:10 <sbp> I do, this is great entertainment
13:02:24 <[bjoern]> I watched the coverage. It's not.
13:02:34 <sbp> there was your mistake
13:04:20 <sbp> LD vs. Con seat here
13:04:29 <sbp> very tight, 300 votes or so in it
13:04:36 <sbp> 21,739 Con
13:05:04 <sbp> MRLP gets a big cheer
13:05:13 <sbp> 26,... LD
13:05:19 <sbp> too many cheers to complete the number
13:05:28 <sbp> LD hold Cheltenham
13:05:34 <sbp> 26,659
13:05:59 <sbp> +11% LD, 4.3% swing
13:12:56 <sbp> Tony Benn wonders if we're not headed for another general election
13:13:14 <sbp> says the public probably don't want one because it's a strain and boring
13:13:20 <libby> true
13:13:28 <libby> well not soon anyway
13:13:30 <sbp> but, as Paxman phrases it, the electorate did sort of bring it on themselves
13:16:51 <sbp> hmm. ex SLD leader says there's a possibility of confidence prop minority government
13:17:00 <sbp> where they get LD support for Queen's Speech and budget only
13:17:12 <sbp> only a possibility
13:19:01 <sbp> another big LD vs. Con seat
13:19:12 <sbp> LD 30,896
13:19:16 <sbp> LD hold
13:19:33 <sbp> all these little seats becoming really important
13:20:08 <sbp> hugh LD majority there
13:20:15 <sbp> +14% LD
13:20:20 <sbp> swing is 11.1%, blimey
13:21:30 <sbp> Con can't surpass 308 now
13:24:09 <libby> interesting that
13:27:14 <sbp> Bercow with Paxman
13:27:24 <sbp> wearing the Speaker's rosette
13:28:07 <sbp> Cameron about to speak
13:30:56 <sbp> Clegg may speak after Cameron
13:30:57 <sbp> hmm
13:34:45 <sbp> Cameron
13:34:53 <sbp> he's coming out guns blazing it seems
13:34:59 <sbp> clear what he wants
13:35:05 <sbp> already, first sentence
13:35:16 <sbp> more votes, bigger share, we want change
13:35:53 <sbp> he's thanking Conservatives, saying they can be proud
13:35:59 <sbp> saying he did better than Thatcher in 1979
13:36:10 <sbp> saying Labour did worse than anything from 1931 onwards
13:36:18 <sbp> does accept that he fell short of an overall majority
13:36:26 <sbp> Britain needs strong, stable, decisive government
13:36:31 <sbp> need to get it on a secure basis
13:37:00 <sbp> he's sounding like a strange hybrid between the leader of the opposition and the prime minister
13:37:05 <sbp> which is sort of what he is at the moment
13:37:32 <sbp> "we must all rise to this occasion, we must show leadership, we must sort things out for the good of the country"
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13:37:40 <sbp> now mentions what Clegg has said and thanks him
13:37:47 <sbp> beginning talks with other parties to see how it can be done
13:37:54 <sbp> talking about policy agreements
13:38:09 <sbp> suggests a confidence and supply arrangement (as I noted above)
13:38:16 <[bjoern]> He is not going to say "So long, and thanks for all the fish." is he.
13:38:16 <sbp> he is also prepared to consider alternatives
13:38:31 <sbp> doesn't want a minority government
13:38:38 <sbp> he makes a big offer to the LD
13:38:39 <sbp> wow
13:38:46 <sbp> debt, social, and voting
13:38:49 <sbp> wtf is going on
13:38:57 <sbp> acknowledges policy differences
13:39:15 <sbp> doesn't want to give more powers to the EU
13:39:20 <sbp> can't be weak or soft on immigration
13:39:25 <sbp> country's defences must be kept strong
13:39:46 <[bjoern]> Yeah, considering how you are threatened on your island there.
13:40:16 <sbp> wants to uphold most of his policy areas in the manifesto
13:40:16 <JibberJim> WE MUST WATCH OUT FOR THE GERMANS!
13:40:27 <sbp> low carbon from the LDs he accepts
13:40:32 <libby> extraordinary situation
13:40:41 <sbp> this is insane, I can't believe I'm hearing this
13:40:49 <sbp> LD tax reforms he accepts against Labour
13:40:53 <libby> incredible
13:40:56 <sbp> gives this aim a higher priority and wants to work with LD
13:41:03 <sbp> common commitment to civil liberties
13:41:09 <sbp> scrapping ID cards, agrees with LD
13:41:22 <sbp> electoral system reform... they both have their ideas
13:41:31 <sbp> equal sizes of constituencies
13:41:41 <sbp> need an all party committee on electoral reform
13:41:49 <sbp> okay, well there you go, that's the crux
13:42:08 <libby> but Lib-lab don't have enough right?
13:42:11 <sbp> nope
13:42:21 <sbp> they'll just have a bigger minority coalition
13:42:39 <sbp> but Brown did dangle the carrot
13:42:44 <libby> the real carrot
13:42:45 <sbp> comprehensive and open offer to the LD
13:42:54 <sbp> yeah, a bigger one than Cameron
13:43:03 <sbp> but he's offering many other policy points to the LD
13:43:11 <libby> but it'll be less stable than con-lib
13:43:18 <libby> blimey
13:43:26 <sbp> con-lib. man
13:43:30 * [bjoern] German media refers to Brown as squatting, entranching in downing street, hoping for liberals coming to the rescue...
13:43:38 <[bjoern]> ONE FURTHER POINT
13:43:39 <sbp> one further point he wants to make
13:43:48 <sbp> wants to do this quickly
13:43:50 <sbp> wow, heh
13:43:54 <sbp> everybody else is saying sloOOoow
13:44:01 <sbp> Cameron is all "get on with it"
13:44:13 <sbp> I don't just mean the other leaders
13:44:16 <sbp> I mean everybody
13:44:29 <sbp> I've heard nobody asking for a fast process, only Cameron here
13:44:35 <libby> I think everyone could do with a nice nap
13:44:38 <sbp> he wants to do it today he's just said, put in change today
13:44:39 <sbp> yeah!
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13:45:12 <[bjoern]> THAT'S ALL FOLKS
13:45:18 <sbp> "this urgent work must begin"
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13:46:06 <MacTed> what, he didn't introduce the new iParliament?
13:46:12 <[bjoern]> "He did say decisions would involve compromise", great commentary there
13:46:20 <sbp> heh, yeah
13:46:40 <sbp> Jon Sopel wonders if this is based on conversation with LD to see what would be sufficient
13:46:41 <tav> sbp: he mentioned "today" ?
13:46:53 <sbp> yes, I think so
13:47:25 <sbp> "was he talking about a deal or a coalition?"
13:47:35 <sbp> shadow cabinet members: "wait and see"
13:48:22 <sbp> if he's turned down, Nick Robinson says, it will give him more authority to form a minority government
13:48:42 <[bjoern]> "Israel won't move on U.N. call for nuclear-free zone" -- Reuters.
13:49:09 <[bjoern]> "Google Adds Text Recognition To Goggles"
13:50:07 <sbp> not sure if Clegg is going to make a statement now
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13:53:24 <sbp> Ming says fundamental differences
13:53:29 <sbp> and mentions the Jenkins commission
13:53:37 <sbp> doesn't seem to like the offer much
13:53:43 <sbp> Paxman, "playing hard to get?"
13:53:47 <sbp> taking him at face value
13:53:52 <[bjoern]> They'll all work this out with some splendid game of cricket and some tea with milk.
13:54:13 <BigJibby> brits put milk in their tea?
13:54:14 <sbp> enquiry not good enough
13:56:32 <sbp> I thought Cameron was going to offer more on the electoral reform
13:56:38 <tav> yeah
13:56:39 <sbp> given the build up. I know it would have been crazy
13:56:57 <tav> exactly!
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13:57:05 <[bjoern]> So many people voted pirate party uk, if you'd thank them all personally it'd take hours.
13:57:19 * BigJibby doesn't understand what the big deal about a minority government is.
13:57:43 <tav> lol
13:57:43 <sbp> Cameron: we don't want PR, we don't want a referendum on PR (old quote)
13:57:46 <[bjoern]> ~ http://www.pirateparty.org.uk/press/releases/2010/may/7/election-result/
13:58:10 <tav> lol @ the reporter suggesting that the Cameron's then statement is ambiguous
13:59:00 <sbp> .gc "muddle and fudge"
13:59:01 <phenny> "muddle and fudge": 29
13:59:06 <BigJibby> .w Rhinoceros Party
13:59:08 <phenny> Couldn't get any definitions for Rhinoceros Party.
13:59:16 <sbp> tav: yeah, that was funny
13:59:20 <[bjoern]> They operate in the shadows.
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14:00:44 <BigJibby> so the conservatives are forming a coalition with the liberals?? how is that even possible?
14:01:03 <sbp> we don't know yet if that's even the offer
14:01:09 <sbp> the shadow cabinet members said to wait and see
14:01:15 <sbp> Cameron said "involvement"
14:01:22 <sbp> which is pointedly ambiguous
14:01:48 <sbp> he did intimate, though, that he wanted more than confidence and supply
14:02:00 <sbp> which indicates to me that it was more coalition shaped than deal shaped
14:02:19 <sbp> on the other hand, Europe and voting reform. big holes
14:03:22 <sbp> man, two prominent Conservatives come out in favor of electoral reform!
14:03:41 <sbp> Carswell and Hannan
14:06:38 <BigJibby> hmm, you have way too many parties with seats
14:07:01 <sbp> Campbell: Clegg can decide an awful lot about the future of government
14:07:09 <[bjoern]> So what effect will this election have on the definition of britishness?
14:09:07 <BigJibby> .wik britishness
14:09:07 <phenny> "Britishness is the state or quality of being British,[2]| and is used to refer to what binds and distinguishes the British people and forms the basis of their unity and identity,[3]| or else to explain expressions of British culture—such as habits, behaviours or [...]" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britishness
14:09:26 <sbp> LD about to keep St. Ives I suspect
14:10:16 <[bjoern]> The labour girl is hotter though
14:10:22 <sbp> she is nice, yeah
14:10:29 <sbp> LD hold
14:10:31 <sbp> close though
14:11:21 <sbp> woah
14:11:28 <sbp> Fermanagh & S Tyrone, Maj. 4
14:11:55 <sbp> six left to declare
14:14:32 <[bjoern]> 13203 Kodos : Kang 13203
14:14:45 <sbp> Con win Amber Valley from Lab
14:14:49 <[bjoern]> big hat.
14:14:55 <sbp> MRLP
14:15:15 <[bjoern]> .wik Monster Raving Loony Party
14:15:16 <phenny> "The Official Monster Raving Loony Party, contesting the 2010 General Election as the Monster Raving Loony William Hill Party,[1]| is a registered political party[2]| established in the United Kingdom in 1963 by musician and politician David Sutch, better known as [...]" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monster_Raving_Loony_Party
14:15:24 <sbp> 265 for the Thing
14:16:03 <sbp> Morecambe Con gain
14:16:14 <[bjoern]> .wik Rhinoceros Party of Canada
14:16:14 <phenny> "The Parti Rhinocéros, commonly known as the Rhinoceros Party in English, was a registered political party in Canada from the 1960s to the 1990s." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinoceros_Party_of_Canada
14:16:42 <[bjoern]> "The Union Flag is one of the most potent symbols of Britishness" - Wikipedia.
14:20:46 <sbp> Lord Butler says the Civil Service has done roleplaying about a hung parliament
14:21:03 <[bjoern]> .title http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,592086,00.html
14:21:04 <phenny> [bjoern]: Fox on Sex: Try More Solo Sex for Better Partner Play - Sex | Erectile Dysfunction | Sexual Health - FOXNews.com
14:21:40 <sbp> FOX: NEWSFLASH: WANK MORE: MORE AT TEN
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14:23:01 <sbp> Jon Sopel just called Lord Butler "Robin", heh
14:23:46 <[bjoern]> [long monologue] " Yeah, fascinating..... "
14:24:47 <sbp> hehe
14:25:17 <[bjoern]> this 3d cruft is so fail I lack words to complain about it.
14:25:24 <sbp> yeah
14:25:25 <[bjoern]> (without spending too much effort on it)
14:25:35 <sbp> blotherous, perhaps
14:27:53 <tommorris> 3D TV and movies?
14:28:20 <tommorris> Completely pointless.
14:28:23 <tommorris> Except maybe for porn.
14:29:44 <[bjoern]> nice twitter criticism there
14:29:54 <sbp> haha, yeah, enjoying this
14:30:38 <[bjoern]> Apparently I never heard of the most famous blogger
14:30:48 <tommorris> Scoble?
14:30:55 <tommorris> I don't even know who the most famous blogger is.
14:31:15 <sbp> Guido? I do
14:31:21 <tommorris> Isn't that like saying the most famous Tesco shopper or the most famous motorcyclist?
14:31:47 <tommorris> I'm pretty sure some Hollywood celeb has a LiveJournal or something.
14:31:51 <sbp> well this is more of a whistleblowing thing
14:32:45 <[bjoern]> "I didn't mean to be rude about it, I know it's the way of the future"
14:36:05 <sbp> with a pinch of what?
14:39:07 <sbp> John Major says that prominent LD members should be offered cabinet seats
14:39:37 <tommorris> If I were Clegg, I'd also push for veto power over any ministerial post.
14:39:53 <tommorris> to prevent the more nutty parts of the Tory party being able to be in the Cabinet.
14:55:46 <[bjoern]> "A Transportation Security Agency employee at Miami International Airport has been arrested for attacking a co-worker who teased him about the size of his genitals after he walked through a body scanner." - http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7018626872
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14:59:53 <JibberJim> so that's Con's with a majority between the 3 main parties then.
15:00:07 <JibberJim> (well assuming the 1 result to come stays con.)
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15:18:13 <tommorris> since we still have a Labour government, the Tory claim "vote Lib Dem get Brown" is right, and if the Tories do the coalition with the LibDems, "vote Lib Dem get Tories" is also right. Don't presume disjunction! ;)
15:18:32 <jeanniecool> Just lemme know when you figure it out, kthx.
15:19:05 <tommorris> Oh, it is very simple: Cameron is Britain's Obama, if you believe, err, Rupert Murdoch.
15:19:50 <tommorris> You'd think that Murdoch would oppose Cameron if he thought he was like Obama...
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15:22:02 <tommorris> Cameron is like Britain's Obama in all ways except he's not black and didn't win the election.
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15:38:34 <BigJibby> .u
15:38:34 <phenny> U+001D (No name found)
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16:01:04 <[bjoern]> .wik Craplle
16:01:06 <phenny> Can't find anything in Wikipedia for "Craplle".
16:01:16 <[bjoern]> .wik Crapple
16:01:20 <phenny> "This page has been deleted." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crapple
16:15:33 <tommorris> Damnit, my headphones are sounding wonky again.
16:15:48 <tommorris> More audio coming out the right than the left.
16:15:57 <tommorris> Apple headphones do that after a few months.
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17:58:33 <[bjoern]> phenny, tell sbp http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gallery/2010/may/06/greece-protest?picture=362290874
17:58:34 <phenny> [bjoern]: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
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18:05:33 <jeanniecool> penis.
18:05:37 <jeanniecool> also, bye!
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18:22:58 <[bjoern]> phenny, tell sbp http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8667836.stm merkel pix towards the end
18:22:58 <phenny> [bjoern]: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
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19:40:52 <BigJibby> http://5z8.info/linked-in-of-sex_b9v3s_illegal-guns-for-sale
19:41:20 <BigJibby> http://www.1227.com/
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20:48:01 * MacTed kills BigJibby. a lot a lot a lot.
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21:22:07 <sbp> [bjoern]: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8668305.stm
21:22:32 <[bjoern]> sbp: "The IESG has approved the following document: - 'Web Linking ' <draft-nottingham-http-link-header-10.txt> as a Proposed Standard"
21:22:58 <sbp> oh. great
21:23:19 <[bjoern]> Someone someday will have to suffer for the title.
21:25:29 <sbp> yeah everybody knows linking on the web is no longer permitted
21:25:55 <sbp> from my present reading, it's actually less annoying in its present state than it was
21:26:06 <[bjoern]> it ... BREAKS THE WEB
21:26:08 <sbp> seems to be... less mention of that three letter acronym technology
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22:40:37 <tommorris> DTD? ;)
22:41:00 <Arnia> UKers eligible to stand as MPs, please report
22:41:06 * tommorris is
22:41:30 <tommorris> what is it? citizenship + >21
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22:42:13 <tommorris> Oh and 10 electors in chosen constituency and £500.
22:42:41 <Arnia> Yeah
22:43:11 <tommorris> I'm a citizen and I'm over 21.
22:43:17 <Arnia> I'm considering having a Philosopher's Dining Party
22:43:24 <tommorris> But I'm not willing to pay £500 to lose an election.
22:43:26 <Arnia> (as a sort of Swhack party)
22:43:44 <Arnia> How many months to the next GE do you reckon?
22:43:50 <Arnia> I give it four right now
22:44:14 * tommorris will wait a few days before attempting an informed opinion on politics
22:44:47 <Arnia> you mean until we find out whether a con-lib coalition is actually going to happen?
22:44:51 <Arnia> (good grief)
22:45:15 <tommorris> Seems reasonable.
22:45:47 <tommorris> There's a few thousand people in television studios and newspaper offices speculating on the unknowable. Saturated market which I'd rather not participate in.
22:46:09 <Arnia> We went through as many of the scenarios as we could about a month ago
22:46:22 <Arnia> the current one is one we actually ranked quite lowly
22:46:30 <Arnia> let's see how it pans out
22:47:39 <tommorris> I'm rather surprised that the LibDems don't seem to have done quite as thorough analysis of possible election results as everybody else.
22:48:08 <tommorris> I mean, not just Clegg, but the party in general - party activists and so on.
22:48:22 <Arnia> I think they became a bit complacent
22:48:45 <tommorris> Complacent's not quite the word I'd use: they honestly believed their own bullshit.
22:49:05 <Arnia> Instead of planning for what was possible, they planned for what they hoped for
22:49:12 <tommorris> Yep.
22:49:27 <tommorris> Everyone knew that this situation was possible - indeed quite likely.
22:49:41 <Arnia> which is a recipe for disaster; just because X is the only nice outcome doesn't mean you should plan solely for X
22:49:59 <Arnia> in fact, planning for any single outcome is likely to be a disaster
22:50:03 <Arnia> plan for everything you can
22:50:07 <tommorris> They probably should have had a little in advance what the relative merits of LibCon pact vs. LibLab
22:50:37 <tommorris> But they can't have an honest debate in the party because they must keep up the facade that they are going to storm to victory.
22:51:18 <Arnia> Well, central office should have the honest debate
22:51:50 <tommorris> Meanwhile, in the Lab and Con party, they have to keep the bullshit that "a vote for the LibDems is a vote for [Lab,Con].notUs()"
22:52:50 <tommorris> Which is a nonsense. In my Tory safe seat constituency, a vote for the LibDems is a vote for, err, the LibDems.
22:53:01 * Arnia imagines the chaos if we had permanently hung parliaments
22:53:22 <tommorris> Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and sometimes a vote is for who it is intended for.
22:53:40 <Arnia> coalitions are often more about bites at the power cherry
22:54:04 <Arnia> or maybe I'm too cynical, and really all MPs want is to follow their convictions
22:58:09 * tommorris just wishes to note that JRuby makes my life significantly less annoying.
22:58:17 <tommorris> s/my/his/g
22:58:58 <Arnia> eh
22:59:14 * Arnia stabs tommorris with a sharpened monoidally closed category
22:59:54 <sbp> brutal
22:59:55 * tommorris instantiates JPragmaticHandler<OperatorConfusion<Tired, Late>>
23:00:21 * tommorris instantiates
23:00:26 * tommorris apparates
23:00:32 * tommorris evaporates
23:00:32 <Arnia> .wik monoidally closed category
23:00:33 <phenny> "In mathematics, especially in category theory, a closed monoidal category is a context where we can take tensor products of objects and also form 'mapping objects'." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_monoidal_category
23:01:06 * tommorris noths the nothingness belonging to Nobody.
23:01:39 <Arnia> E_WPLUS_IS_ZERO
23:01:40 * tommorris believes a Heidegger-bot may be required.
23:02:13 <Arnia> Is it a boozy old beggar?
23:02:29 <tommorris> nay, a Markov chain.
23:03:15 <Arnia> Markov has a lot to answer for
23:03:18 <Arnia> TO THE TIME MACHINE!
23:03:27 <tommorris> [In Nazi Germany,] The consumption of alcohol was also strongly campaigned against.
23:04:42 <Arnia> In Nazi Germany, Markov chains you?
23:04:51 * Arnia wonders if he got that right
23:04:57 <Arnia> I'm awful with these 'memes'
23:05:27 <tommorris> Yes, that'd be right.
23:05:34 <tommorris> Technically, in Soviet Russia.
23:06:23 <jeanniecool> Penis?
23:06:26 <tommorris> Imagine a Beowulf clusters of jokes that have the truth conditions of 'In Soviet Russia, memes mime me, with Natalie Portman and HOT GRITS.'
23:06:40 <Arnia> Why Natalie Portman?
23:06:53 <tommorris> nerd willy-rubbing fantasie
23:07:12 <Arnia> straight male nerd
23:07:53 <tommorris> indeed, although you can gender morph in yer brain.
23:08:04 * jeanniecool likes straight male nerds....
23:08:21 <[[sroracle]]> If only every woman did, jeanniecool
23:08:24 <Arnia> I'm not such a fan
23:08:37 <tommorris> Oh, wait, it's coming back to me:
23:09:03 <tommorris> In Soviet Russia, imagine Natalie Portman naked and petrified pouring HOT GRITS in your pants.
23:09:07 <Arnia> gay male geeks however... mostly academigeeks
23:09:39 <tommorris> I don't quite get it though: if Natalie Portman were petrified, she would have difficulty performing the physical movement required in pouring the HOT GRITS down the sbject's pants.
23:09:43 <Arnia> although graphic design geeks too
23:09:58 <Arnia> tommorris: less literal petrification?
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23:10:23 <tommorris> Sadly, Wikipedia deleted the page they had entitled "Slashdot trolling phenomena"
23:10:42 <Arnia> Slashdot IS a troll
23:10:45 <Arnia> one long troll
23:10:54 <Arnia> well, less so than Engadget actually
23:10:56 <Arnia> but still
23:10:57 <tommorris> Slashdot has greatly improved in the last 3+ years.
23:11:32 <tommorris> Ever since all the 14-year-old boys moved over to Digg and all the politics people moved to Reddit and the hardcore gadget fetishists to Engadget/Gizmodo.
23:11:46 <tommorris> There's still a lot of libertarian 'tards
23:11:59 <tommorris> but that's because it is the Internet.
23:12:25 <tommorris> Mostly, though, since Digg and other blogs have popped up and siphoned the idiots away, discussion has gotten quite a bit better.
23:12:41 <tommorris> Plus I read at 2+ so don't see most of the remaining shit.
23:12:53 <Arnia> How many objectivists are left?
23:12:59 * Arnia sharpens knives
23:13:17 <tommorris> A few turn up on any discussion on YRO.
23:13:22 <tommorris> Objectivists are hilarious.
23:13:50 <tommorris> I love how they try and defend Rand's contributions to metaphysics and epistemology.
23:14:27 * Arnia deletes the category 'truth' and watches the ensuing panic with glee
23:14:50 <Arnia> I should stay out of the universe's file system really
23:15:06 <tommorris> Rand's politics: agree or disagree, whatever. But how one gets to libertarian capitalism and self-interest given her metaphysical and epistemic premises, I cannot see.
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23:15:47 <Arnia> their argument, that's because you're stupid
23:15:59 <Arnia> and therefore doomed to fail under their self-evident greatness
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23:16:30 <tommorris> I do love some of the libertarian things I've seen.
23:16:34 * Arnia thinks Rand suits people who are quite passive aggressive
23:16:39 <tommorris> Ever see the 'Liberty Dollar'?
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23:16:49 <tommorris> That's really nutty.
23:17:04 <Arnia> no...
23:17:12 <Arnia> summary?
23:17:34 <Arnia> http://anumberof.tumblr.com/
23:17:41 <tommorris> It is a libertarian alternative currency started by an anarcho-capitalist stoner called Bernard Von NotHaus (or 'nuthouse' as his detractors call him).
23:18:12 <Arnia> on what is it based?
23:18:14 <tommorris> NotHaus is the head of the "Free Marijuana Church of Honolulu" and issues gold-backed banknotes and coins from his own mint and sells them to other libertarians.
23:18:34 <tommorris> Only he didn't pay his taxes, so the government took all his gold...
23:19:15 <tommorris> And I don't think he registered it as a corporation because, you know, that's collaborating with The System.
23:19:22 <Arnia> InstantFiatCurrency
23:19:28 <Arnia> InstantFiat is a great name
23:19:31 * Arnia claims
23:20:19 <tommorris> But due to the ideological presuppositions of the supporters, they can't really complain. A big dog came along and enforced what he believed to be a contract on Mr. Von NotHaus.
23:20:58 <Arnia> bet they do anyway
23:21:22 <tommorris> That Von NotHaus didn't deem it suitable to pay for better security, you know, doesn't cross their minds. They claim the government is infrining on their civil liberties - which they don't have because there is ideally no government, just an anarcho-capitalist war of all against all.
23:22:05 <tommorris> I found libertarianism a very attractive proposition until I remembered that I quite like being able to use the NHS.
23:24:12 <Arnia> you mean collective responsibility may allow the leveraging of economies of scale and the prevention of contagion effects (like unemployment and crime). Well I never
23:26:35 <tommorris> Ooh. Hayek's Road to Serfdom in comic book form. http://mises.org/books/trts/
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