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00:26:36 <[bjoern]> phenny, tell sbp http://www.w3.org/mid/BD903FB7-9788-471F-A59F-65A1D56BE239@w3.org -- We need an Episode IV?
00:26:36 <phenny> [bjoern]: I'll pass that on when sbp is around.
00:27:31 <sbp> why did he leave?
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02:43:14 <jsled> shit's fucked up. http://althouse.blogspot.com/2010/07/vegetables-are-alive.html
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06:40:32 * jeanniecool dances a conga line
06:40:39 <jeanniecool> penis penis penis!
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11:55:27 *** [bjoern] changed the topic to: "Are you part of the solution? <#> IRC beings will always betray you."
11:58:38 <[bjoern]> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/7877226/Tony-Blair-exaggerated-Irans-role-in-Iraq-fighting.html
11:58:49 <[bjoern]> Blair! Of all people! Who'd have thought!
12:03:24 <[bjoern]> 'People in Scotland said numpty was a great word to describe "general foolishness" and said it "could be used in many ways".'
12:04:11 <[bjoern]> interesting image http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/europe/10548471.stm
12:09:02 <[bjoern]> .gc Sorry honey, I feel a wee bit supercaleygoballisticcelticareatrocious today
12:09:02 <phenny> Sorry honey, I feel a wee bit supercaleygoballisticcelticareatrocious today: 0
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12:10:35 <[bjoern]> I take it "numpty" is great because it offends without offending.
12:11:30 <[bjoern]> Lautmalerei is in the top ten among males apparently, except they spell it incorrectly "onomatopoeia"
12:11:43 <[bjoern]> .gc +antidisestablishmentarianism
12:11:43 <phenny> +antidisestablishmentarianism: 13,800
12:12:30 <[bjoern]> phenny, "ضدیت_با_رسمیتزدایی_کلیسا"?
12:12:30 <phenny> [bjoern]: "With anti _ _ _ Rsmytzdayy church" (fa to en, translate.google.com)
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12:19:15 <[bjoern]> Supposedly german has long words, but apparently the longest english word has 189819 letters.
12:30:00 <[bjoern]> "'I am concerned for the octopus ... I am thinking of sending him a protective team'" -- Prime Minister Jose Luiz Rodriguez Zapatero.
12:31:55 <archels> The one with the long penis?
12:32:39 <[bjoern]> .wik Paul the Octopus
12:32:39 <phenny> "Paul the Octopus also known as 'Paul Oktopus', is a common octopus who lives in the Sea Life public aquarium in Oberhausen, Germany." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_the_Octopus
12:37:49 <[bjoern]> "People who make their colleagues miserable by constantly moaning at work may actually be suffering from a mental illness, a study suggests."
12:38:13 <[bjoern]> May sound silly, until you read "According to researchers in Germany, they are suffering from a new condition called post-traumatic embitterment disorder."
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12:39:59 <[bjoern]> Spaceporn "Black hole blows huge gas bubble"
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16:11:18 <[bjoern]> "The proton seems to be 0.00000000000003 millimetres smaller than researchers previously thought"
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17:21:31 <[bjoern]> It's depressing when you google some term to check if it's a suitable domain name, .all. results you get concern the actual and registered term.com.
17:22:20 <[bjoern]> "is sex better the second time" - Google suggest.
17:23:01 <[bjoern]> sex can... #1 is "sex can wait i want to be an engineer"
17:25:19 <treed> Wow.
17:26:51 <[bjoern]> Ha, I saw that one coming http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guano_Apes#Reunion
17:35:09 <[bjoern]> .gc "There's a penis in my pocket"
17:35:10 <phenny> "There's a penis in my pocket": 0
17:41:22 <[bjoern]> I wonder if there is some large scale project on the web underway to decide Who's the more foolish: The fool, or the fool who follows him?
17:47:46 <[bjoern]> .gc "taser porn"
17:47:46 <phenny> "taser porn": 36
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18:34:04 <[bjoern]> Great caption http://www.flickr.com/photos/strickwerk/3607155933/
18:45:28 <MacTed> .gcs * than researchers previously thought
18:45:30 <phenny> than (153,000,000), thought (43,800,000), previously (22,100,000), researchers (10,700,000), * (0)
18:45:40 <MacTed> .gs * than researchers previously thought
18:45:41 <phenny> MacTed: nuanced role (3), earlier (3), differently (3), debilitating (3)
18:45:58 <MacTed> .gc smaller than researchers previously thought
18:45:59 <phenny> smaller than researchers previously thought: 1,570,000
18:46:10 <MacTed> .gc "smaller than researchers previously thought"
18:46:11 <phenny> "smaller than researchers previously thought": 39
18:46:25 <MacTed> I hate you phenny.
18:47:52 <[bjoern]> .gs * than researchers previously thought
18:47:52 <phenny> [bjoern]: nuanced role (3), earlier (3), differently (3), debilitating (3)
18:48:58 <sbp> .gs penis in my *
18:48:59 <phenny> penis in my *: mouth (9), butt (6), vegina (5), uterus (4), pocket (4), vagina (3)
18:49:14 <sbp> good how vegina beats vagina
18:49:21 <[bjoern]> yes, yes indeed.
18:50:06 <[bjoern]> http://mucklesandwich.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/master-numpty3.jpg
18:50:17 <sbp> haha
18:50:51 <[bjoern]> I wonder if it's shopped
18:52:07 <[bjoern]> http://pig.sty.nu/Pictures/highland-show/half_16-macsween_haggis_numpty.jpg
18:52:49 <sbp> so many numpties
18:55:01 <sbp> oldest citation is:
18:55:01 <sbp> 1988 M. MUNRO Patter: another Blast 50 How is it I get all the numpties in my class?
18:55:16 <sbp> "[Origin uncertain; perhaps alteration of NUMPS n. or NUMBSKULL n., with ending perhaps remodelled after HUMPTY-DUMPTY n. / Perhaps compare naumpey in the sense ‘a weak, foolish-minded person’, recorded from Wiltshire in Eng. Dial. Dict.]"
18:56:36 <[bjoern]> Pity the collection is incomplete http://www.flickr.com/photos/play-it-louder/tags/büdchen/
18:59:04 <sbp> earliest I can find is 1994
18:59:13 <sbp> in two places: in a book, and on usenet
18:59:23 <sbp> —
18:59:23 <sbp> >G.A. Forsyth <G.A.Fors...@newcastle.ac.uk> wrote:
18:59:23 <sbp> >> By the way, Hungary thrashing some numpty Latin American country
18:59:24 <sbp> >> 10-0 could hardly be classed as an upset.
18:59:26 <sbp> —
19:05:09 <sbp> "numpty (nump'ti) noun, [From Old Saxon, numptìn, a horseless cart]. A middle aged driver of a non-descript (yet surprisiginly frugal) Japanese hatchback that drives at a constant 39mph in all conditions and situations."
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19:08:29 <jsled> good caption on the first pic at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Call_a_spade_a_spade
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19:15:49 <sbp> Shortcut: WP:DUCK
19:16:15 <sbp> funny how Wikipedia: basically means Clichés:
19:18:29 <[bjoern]> no WP:DUCKSLOT
19:23:02 <sbp> not yet
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19:23:45 <[bjoern]> "Sign in to like this photo. (?)"
19:24:56 <sbp> quick, you'd better do as they ask!
19:25:57 <[bjoern]> No google account
19:28:03 <sbp> yeah, one of these days I'm just going to go mental and delete all my accounts with everything
19:28:08 <sbp> NO MORE INFORMATION FROM ME, SUCKERS
19:29:00 <appletizer> sbp, resistance is futile
19:29:07 <appletizer> withdrawal is simply too painful :)
19:29:30 <sbp> resistance is futile, but resilience is useful in pvp
19:30:25 <appletizer> except when you keep respawning in front of an enemy player
19:31:31 <sbp> no, you just avoid taking the res
19:31:37 <sbp> and wait till your pvp flag wears off
19:31:38 <[bjoern]> That procedure is not recommended.
19:31:47 <sbp> unless you're in a bg, in which case you can just quit if it's that bad
19:32:29 <[bjoern]> So in a ctf you can go after the pvp flag?
19:33:05 <sbp> no, though that would be interesting
19:33:29 <sbp> in ctf I tend to cap the flag well and then die as the team around me gets the shit beaten out of them
19:34:01 <[bjoern]> I just shoot everyone.
19:34:08 <sbp> wg, not eots, to acronymise the haus up a bit
19:37:36 <[bjoern]> "Be the first of your friends to like this."
19:41:57 <[bjoern]> I am waiting for "Some of your friends dislike this".
19:44:47 <sbp> some of your friends dislike you being the first of your friends to like that
19:45:58 <[bjoern]> Some of your friends unfriended some of their friends after they disagreed about liking this.
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19:56:39 <[bjoern]> "Researchers have challenged the assumption that a lack of exercise causes children to put on weight."
20:02:32 <[bjoern]> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/07/lindsay-lohans-fingernail_n_637469.html
20:02:51 <laplink> .title
20:02:52 <phenny> laplink: Lindsay Lohan's Fingernail Painted With 'F**k U'
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20:28:00 *** sbp changed the topic to: "Möwenflug"
20:32:40 <sbp> http://pixdaus.com/pics/1278391497ehwSX4L.jpg
20:33:59 <sbp> http://www.boingboing.net/invishomeless.jpg
20:34:37 <sbp> http://www.notempire.com/images/uploads/magnetic-thinking-putty.jpg
20:35:16 <sbp> http://www.thebadchemicals.com/comics/2010-07-07-simple-mistake.jpg
20:36:20 <[bjoern]> ...
20:40:00 <[bjoern]> "but you know what? There are a lot of sick fucks who play WoW" - http://asnowstormbyanyothername.blogspot.com/
20:40:19 <sbp> they're called "horde"
20:40:48 <[bjoern]> Yes, I lead the great horde in Wesnoth.
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20:51:14 <[bjoern]> "The BBC is not responsible for the content of external sites. Read more."
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21:11:50 <[bjoern]> Dune seems to lose quite a bit in the translation, compare Irulan "Any road followed precisely to its end leads precisely nowhere. Climb the mountain just a little bit to test that it's a mountain. From the top of the mountain, you cannot see the mountain."
21:11:56 <[bjoern]> with "Jede Straße, der man konsequent bis zu ihrem Ende folgt, führt unweigerlich ins Nichts. Erklimme einen Berg nur ein kleines Stück, und du wirst ihn in Gänze sehen. Stehst Du auf seinem Gipfel wird er für Dich unsichtbar." in the german original.
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21:20:43 <sbp> how would you translate it?
21:22:02 <[bjoern]> I would not. Translating good literature properly is very hard.
21:22:15 <sbp> good move
21:26:00 <[bjoern]> Trying to come up with a literal translation from the german to english. Not sure how to translate "konsequent" for starters
21:26:39 <[bjoern]> I don't think "consistent" is quite the right word
21:28:12 <[bjoern]> It's more in the direction of taking one step after the other (where the steps depend upon one another) and not wavering
21:28:55 <[bjoern]> Google suggests "Nowhere" for "Nichts", but it's more like ... Nothingness, void.
21:29:52 <[bjoern]> Second sentence would be something like "Climb a mountain just a little bit and you will see it in full"
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21:30:32 <[bjoern]> although I am not sure if "see" here is the right word, i feel that the german "sehen" captures more of the experience than just the optics.
21:30:58 <[bjoern]> (at least as used here)
21:31:55 <[bjoern]> Last sentence would be something like "If you stand on its summit, it becomes invisible to you" where I am not happy with invisible, but "unsichtbar" in the german version is also not the perfect word
21:32:53 <[bjoern]> .ety inevitable
21:32:53 <phenny> "early 15c., from L. inevitabilis 'unavoidable,' from in- 'not' + evitabilis 'avoidable,' from evitare 'to avoid,' from ex- 'out' + vitare 'shun,' originally 'go out of the way.'" - http://etymonline.com/?term=inevitable
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21:33:43 <[bjoern]> it's a bit passive, "unweigerlich" is from "weigern" which is refuse, decline
21:33:54 <sbp> unsightable?
21:35:26 <[bjoern]> the direction would be more like ... unperceivable (what it should be, unseeable, or unsightable, would be a literal translation, yes)
22:01:36 <clsn> sbp: wrt to http://www.notempire.com/images/uploads/magnetic-thinking-putty.jpg I have that same thinking putty and I think the same magnet as well.
22:02:01 <sbp> is it epic awesome?
22:02:58 <clsn> Moderately so. You can place a magnet on a lump of putty and watch as it s-l-o-w-l-y becomes engulfed .
22:03:16 <sbp> did you do the snake charming thing?
22:03:45 <clsn> Yes, I tyhink I have done what is shown in the picture. It's not unlike playing with a paper-clip on the end of a thread in much the same way.
22:04:25 <clsn> Sigh, crazy aaron recently said they had a limited run of CLEAR putty, which sounds cool... Was going to get osome. otoh I would never play with it for fear of getting it all dirty,
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22:06:42 <sbp> .g Crazy Aaron
22:06:43 <phenny> sbp: http://www.puttyworld.com/
22:06:57 <sbp> you can't get dirty with something clear
22:07:01 <[bjoern]> PÜTTYWORLD
22:07:20 <sbp> hehe
22:07:20 <clsn> Silly putty is a wonderful invention, and Crazy Aaron sells it in nice big handfuls (and I think in bulk)
22:09:29 <clsn> Yep, in 1lb bags. Just think what you can do with a pound of colored silly putty!
22:09:41 <[bjoern]> "The joke is reportedly codified into law in at least one municipality of the USA. A Quitman, Georgia ordinance prohibits chickens from crossing the road."
22:09:41 <clsn> (for that matter, what *can't* you do with it?)
22:09:58 <sbp> I'm sure I could put it to some creative uses...
22:10:38 <[bjoern]> Time travel while licking ice cream off a tummy during a leap second.
22:11:18 <sbp> wherever there is gravity, there is time travel
22:11:39 <sbp> so putty can help with that, possesing as it does some gravity
22:11:44 <sbp> *possessing
22:11:51 <[bjoern]> only in a time-space continuum.
22:12:08 <[bjoern]> Do with != help with.
22:13:19 <clsn> http://www.puttyworld.com/magnets.html
22:13:57 <sbp> "You can purchase more powerful magnets here at Gaussboys. Note that these larger magnets are accidents waiting to happen. These things are STRONG!!"
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22:14:15 <[bjoern]> Already feeling the pain.
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22:15:47 <clsn> I have a whole mess of NdFeB magnets, usually from wondermagnet.com, though they may not have as much stuff now as they used to. They are really neat and wicked strong.
22:16:21 <[bjoern]> You are one dangerous humanoid. With too many playtoys.
22:16:29 <sbp> give us some
22:17:30 <clsn> I have a pair I wear on a photographer's vest I sometimes wear in the summer. One on the inside of a pocket and one on the outside. It is NOT going anywhere. :)
22:17:44 <clsn> I sometimes take them out and put them together and give them to someone to TRY to take apart.
22:18:01 <clsn> It's possible, but a lot harder than people believe it could be.
22:18:12 <clsn> Easiest if you slide them, of course.
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22:21:45 <sbp> if a dog swallowed one, could you pick it up with the other?
22:21:49 <sbp> not that I'm saying anybody should
22:21:54 <sbp> but is it theoretically possible?
22:22:03 <sbp> a small dog of course
22:22:20 <clsn> Mmm, probably not, unless it's one of the really bigger ones. There isn't much *range*.
22:22:26 <sbp> ah, okay
22:22:36 <clsn> If you really want to fuck someone up, have them swallow two of them... an hour or two apart.
22:22:43 <sbp> ouch
22:22:56 <clsn> So they'll squish together through twists of small intestine...
22:23:28 <clsn> A quick route to sepsis. Might kill 'em if you're lucky. So don't try this at home.
22:23:49 <[bjoern]> <[bjoern]> Already feeling the pain.
22:24:02 <clsn> Swallowing just one is probably no biggie, though. But stay away from the MRI machine.
22:25:28 <clsn> I bought one of those toys that are a whole bunch (343 in this case) of little bitty NdFeB spherical magnets. They are a lot of fun.
22:27:13 <[bjoern]> It's like Mandy ordering two flats and a packet of magnets.
22:27:15 <sbp> got a link to one of those?
22:27:30 <clsn> Um, sec.
22:28:19 <clsn> http://www.amazon.com/7x7-CyberCube-Green-Box-Toy/dp/B002ABJ1CK
22:29:10 <clsn> There are other brands, some slightly larger balls, usually only 6x6x6, etc. There was someplace else I found that sells them in all sorts of sizes in bulk, possibly cheaper. Lemme see.,
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22:29:39 <sbp> ooh, right, I think I've seen something like this
22:29:43 <sbp> only not with so many balls
22:29:53 <clsn> http://www.edwinscience.com/
22:30:01 <sbp> what kind of shit can you make from them?
22:30:11 <clsn> Most of them are 216 (6x6x6).
22:30:16 <sbp> oh, I see from that page
22:30:17 <sbp> excellent
22:30:23 <clsn> See pictures. :) They're fun to play with.
22:30:33 <clsn> But you have to be careful not to lose them.
22:30:44 <sbp> n-agons seem popular
22:30:48 <clsn> interestingly, the cube is one of the harder shapes to make.
22:30:58 <clsn> nice flat hexagons are easiest.
22:31:06 <sbp> yeah, makes sense
22:31:25 <clsn> You can make positive-curvature pentagons or negative-curvature heptagons or even octagons, thoug that takes a little work.
22:31:32 <sbp> I don't really get why circles fit around other circles in hexagons
22:32:01 <clsn> I'm thinking it might have to do with the fact that π is close to 3, but I haven't thought that hard about it.
22:32:20 <sbp> but don't they fit perfectly?
22:32:26 <sbp> that would just make it an approximation
22:32:59 <nsh> wiat woht
22:33:15 <nsh> sphere packing?
22:33:35 <sbp> dude, don't make it any more complicated than it already is
22:33:39 <sbp> I'm still struggling with circles
22:33:42 <clsn> Yes, that isn't an *answer*... I think the fact that it's *close* to three means that the sphere-packing which has to be an integer works that way... But that is almost surely bullshit since it doesn't generalize in any useful way to other dimensions.
22:33:42 <nsh> no, wait, circles
22:34:17 <sbp> that would be funny, if the universe rounds down from pi
22:34:22 <clsn> Wll, yeah, it's 2D sphere-packing. Though it's probably simpler than the general case; I know it was proved ages ago.
22:34:38 <sbp> <Universe> yeah, well it is about three innit?
22:34:59 <clsn> Well, it's probably TRUE, in some sense. I mean, I bet the relationship involves pi to some extent. Who's to say what causes which?
22:35:48 <sbp> I... hmm
22:35:49 <clsn> I learned all kinds of formulæ involving centered hexagonal/pentagonal/etc numbers in tinkering with them.
22:35:57 <sbp> well that's why I've been thinking about non-integer bases a lot
22:36:10 <sbp> express everything as base pi, pi is no longer freaky
22:36:22 <clsn> And you can make triangles and stuff and assemble them into polyhedra, woohoo...
22:36:24 <sbp> oh!
22:36:28 <sbp> and I thought of a cool thing today
22:36:33 <sbp> I saw 1/2 on a road sign
22:36:36 <sbp> 1/2 mile
22:36:43 <sbp> and I was like, what makes 1/2 different from 12?
22:36:52 <sbp> then I realised you could use a place notation operator!
22:36:54 <clsn> hrmp, not sure how well I could do with base pi.
22:37:05 <sbp> so 12345 could be spelled 1;2;3;4;5, say
22:37:07 <sbp> where ; is the operator
22:37:13 <clsn> We have signs saying ½ or ¼ or ¾ mile all over the place.
22:37:20 <sbp> then you compare the characteristics of / and ;
22:38:46 <[bjoern]> Fractions are rare on signs over here.
22:39:04 <sbp> they didn't even have a slash though, interestingly
22:39:11 <sbp> they just had the 1 and the 2 diagonally juxtaposed
22:39:24 <nsh> http://www.7stones.com/Homepage/Publisher/rrRotate.html
22:39:29 <sbp> whitespace is still an operator
22:39:40 <nsh> [[[
22:39:41 <nsh> These two examples of packings give rise to lattices of points in 2- and 3-dimensional spaces (the centers
22:39:41 <nsh> of the 2- and 3-spheres). These specific lattices are called laminated. The laminated lattice in
22:39:41 <nsh> n-dimensional space is constructed from that in (n-1)-dimensional space by a layering operation similar
22:39:41 <nsh> to that we just outlined. Without going into details (see "Sphere Packings, Lattices and Groups" by
22:39:44 <nsh> Conway and Sloane), it turns out that perhaps the most interesting lattice of all is the laminated
22:39:46 <nsh> lattice in 24-dimensional space. Weirder still, this is related to the fact that the only n > 1 for
22:39:46 <nsh> which 12 + 22 + 32 + ... + n2 = k2 (a perfect square, k an integer) is n = 24 (in which case k = 70)!
22:39:48 <nsh> This is totally mind-blowing.
22:39:50 <nsh> ]]] -ibid
22:39:53 <[bjoern]> (cf Pulp Fiction for a memorable reference, although they don't discuss signs)
22:40:32 <clsn> I've built rhombic dodecahedra too, which have vertices where the centers go etc...
22:41:18 <clsn> I remember reading about sphere-packing in 24-space, it's very efficient... the kissing number is something like 196,000 or something?
22:41:28 <nsh> guass proved hexagonal was the most efficient _lattice_ packing of circles, but left the question of whether it was the most efficient of any packing
22:41:45 <nsh> this was later proved, apparently, by Alex Thue
22:42:33 <sbp> still doesn't answer my question
22:42:47 <nsh> http://www.claremontmckenna.edu/math/lenny/papers/hexagon.pdf
22:43:15 <clsn> Proving sphere-packing in 3-space is only fairly recent, I think. For ages it was one of those things that "all shopkeepers knew and mathematicians only believed." oslt.
22:43:50 <nsh> origins in Durer and Kepler
22:43:51 <nsh> interesting
22:44:17 <sbp> this paper on the other hand does seem to answer my question
22:44:30 <sbp> but cannot be contained by a margin, so ti;dr
22:44:34 <nsh> recall kepler's nested-platonic-solids solar system
22:44:37 <clsn> Which question was it then?
22:44:49 <sbp> why a bloody hexagon?
22:45:19 <clsn> Indeed... I like regular platonic solids. I've built 'em all from various things.
22:48:08 <nsh> probandi longa, vita brevis
22:48:40 <clsn> phenny, la en "probandi"?
22:48:40 <phenny> clsn: The la to en translation failed, sorry!
22:48:45 <clsn> Yeah, didn't expect that to work.
22:49:49 <nsh> ok
22:50:21 <nsh> argumentum longa...
22:52:51 <sbp> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_packing#Packings_in_the_plane
22:52:52 <clsn> OK. :)
22:52:54 <sbp> DOES NOT EXPLAIN WHY
22:53:29 <clsn> In math, the question "why" is not always obviously possible to answer. Best you can do is relate it to other things, but you can't show causality or anything.
22:53:42 <clsn> Not like you can say "see? And if pi were 7 it would be,..."
22:53:53 <jeanniecool> Penis?
22:54:28 * jeanniecool is a platonic solid
22:55:15 <sbp> pi can easily be seven, you just have to use a non-euclidean geometry
22:55:26 <sbp> euclidean pi being seven though, sure
22:55:29 * sbp waves to jeanniecool
22:55:50 <sbp> and yeah, that's what I mean though
22:56:04 <sbp> I don't want some axiomatic thing which reaches down into the bowels of quantum physics
22:56:10 <sbp> I just want something that makes me go "ooh"
22:56:27 <sbp> at the moment I'm like "six? eh?"
22:56:37 <[bjoern]> .gc +platoid
22:56:37 <phenny> +platoid: 159
22:57:11 <clsn> AZnd indeed in non-euclidean geom sphere-packing is different.
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23:24:09 <[bjoern]> So, how is "Are there any women here today?" hilarious?
23:24:51 <jsled> it depends on where it's said.
23:24:58 <jsled> like, a gay bar.
23:25:02 <jsled> or, a country club.
23:25:05 <jsled> or, a sausage factory
23:25:25 <jeanniecool> Penis?
23:26:29 <[bjoern]> It's "Kann es sein, dass Weibsvolk anwesend ist?" in the german original, that's hilarious independently of context.
23:29:40 <jeanniecool> that's a completely different meaning to me than "Are there any women here today?"
23:31:48 <[bjoern]> It's literally "Might there be women present?" except that Weibsvolk is archaic, not sure what the english equivalent would be
23:32:19 <sbp> jsled: hahaha
23:33:06 * jeanniecool disagrees
23:33:33 <jeanniecool> Wouldn't it literally be "Can it be that [women] are present?"
23:34:53 <[bjoern]> well that would be overly literal, I think.
23:35:37 <[bjoern]> a bit like translating "muss nicht" with "must not" (muss is must, nicht is not), but it is actually "not required to"
23:35:43 <jeanniecool> Well, in English, the connotations are different.
23:36:18 <jeanniecool> "can it be" implies more amazement/surprise than "are there".
23:36:45 <[bjoern]> I would read "can it be" as more concerned with the possibility than the fact
23:36:55 <jeanniecool> (also not the same as "might there")
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